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Re: Takagi Yoshin Ryu
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Since Takamatsu-sensei brought it together as one thing it would be pretty hard to find differences that aren't just henka of what we do anyway.

Maybe compare to other branches for similarities and difference such as the Hontai Yoshin Ryu

[youtube=425,350][/youtube]

Or the Takagi Ryu
Youtube - Takagi Ryu Jujutsu

Posted on: 2010/1/3 17:05
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Re: Takagi Yoshin Ryu
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No one has a monopoly on joint locks as the body is pretty much the same from one person to the next. The difference is the power needed, the smoothness and level of relaxed body motion used. As Duncan says "the henka". Any effective system of defence or effective martial art is going to use these weaknesses of the human body.

Posted on: 2010/1/3 23:56
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Re: Takagi Yoshin Ryu
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Quote:
The difference is the power needed, the smoothness and level of relaxed body motion used. As Duncan says "the henka".


Hi Papa-san,

I found the above statement strange. I thought "henka" was a term for change mainly used to indicated a variation in "kata"? Did you mean the ability to appply a technique even if the preferences change?

Here is an embu from Tenjin Shinyo Ryu jujutsu, branch off of Yoshin Ryu. Their omote gyaku looks similar:

Regards / Skuggvarg

Posted on: 2010/1/4 3:12
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Re: Takagi Yoshin Ryu
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Hi Eracn, If you try to understand our lineages from other styles or even from Henka you may find yourself deviating from the fundamental essence of the specific Ryuha. For example, there are several branches of Takagi Yoshin Ryu even within the Takamatsu Den, this is common knowledge.. ie. Mizuta Den Ishitani Den..... with each one doing a similar thing but slightly different. Add to that pther departed lines of Takagi Yoshin Ryu and the related Kukishin Ryu, thinkgs can get very confusing.This is done to preserve the authenticity of the Ryu. So I think its best you ask someone offline who is qualified to discuss/show about the topic. This is what I was trying to convey on my last reply.

Posted on: 2010/1/4 11:33
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Re: Takagi Yoshin Ryu
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Dear friends,
It seems like I (and we) can get lost It is hard to find some to answer my question as stated that there are many different understandings in the Ryu Ha too, like Mizuta, Ishitani etc. Thank you for your answers.
I am sorry to see that the specific Ryu Ha is getting lost as we combine everything in Bujinkan but after a while we forget the specific Ryu Ha
Tenjin Shinyo Ryu seems interesting, one of the Kata was very very similar to one of the Takagi yoshin Ryu Katai I think it was on 2.23 except on T.Y.R. we finish it with Osoto Nage .

Posted on: 2010/1/4 16:26
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Re: Takagi Yoshin Ryu
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Maybe our use of the term 'henka' differs. I think of it as different ways of applying a 'technique'. Is that different from yours? When I see so much force applied as was in the video clip you posted and also so much tension, I make that a difference in application of the technique. Any "force" used can be turned against you if your opponent is more relaxed. Any technique to have a good chance of succeeding must come from a place of surprise, it can't be seen coming. Tension really does telegraph your intended movement. With Dr. Hatsumi you don't see such tension, only smooth flow. The body always does the work never the arm muscles and it is never seen coming. It always comes as a surprise. This to me is a different philosophy than shown by your clip.

Posted on: 2010/1/4 22:38
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Re: Takagi Yoshin Ryu
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Quote:

Toruko-jin wrote:
I am sorry to see that the specific Ryu Ha is getting lost as we combine everything in Bujinkan. . .


I'm not. My sense is that the ryuha as such are not what Soke feels are the truly important things which Takamatsu sensei passed on to him. I could be wrong of course, have been plenty of times before. . .

Posted on: 2010/1/6 6:08
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Re: Takagi Yoshin Ryu
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I'm with you Dale on this! I think Sensei has taken the principles and put them in one place, the Bujinkan.

Posted on: 2010/1/6 23:37
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Re: Takagi Yoshin Ryu
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Quote:

dseago wrote:
Quote:

Toruko-jin wrote:
I am sorry to see that the specific Ryu Ha is getting lost as we combine everything in Bujinkan. . .


I'm not. My sense is that the ryuha as such are not what Soke feels are the truly important things which Takamatsu sensei passed on to him. I could be wrong of course, have been plenty of times before. . .

+1

If the schools themselves were the important things as separate entities... then they'd most likely be still taught that way...

Although, sometimes they are...

Posted on: 2010/1/6 23:51
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Re: Takagi Yoshin Ryu
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Even I understand your points (and I like to use Bujinkan very practical too) I see that 20 years later there will be nobody that can teach Takagi Yoshin Ryu. I am sorry for that as it will be lost. It is a cultural thing, just like breaking a very important historical icon or sth. I hope I could make my point this time.
In Bujinkan all mixed together to make a perfect structure, I understand this clearly. If we knew the original forms (at least as Senseis) we could help more and explain more to our students, the waza and why it was done that way etc.

Posted on: 2010/1/7 2:05
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