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Kotō Ryū Kata Kanji and Translation Request
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Hello Everyone,

I am working on my Kotō Ryū notes and could use some help. Could someone please post or e-mail me (instructor@roundrockbujinkan.com) The kanji and translations for the Kotō Ryū kata. I would appreciate this in an electronic format so I can copy and paste the kanji into my notes. Below is the list I have to work with. If you have a more accurate list, please let me know. Thanks in advance for you help.

Take care,
John


The Five Levels of Koto Ryu
Kurai Dori (5 Kamae)
Shoden no Kata (18 Kata)
Chuden no Kata (12 Kata)
Okuden no Kata (12 Kata)
Hekito no Kata (8 Kata)

Kurai Dori (Standing Capture)
Migi Seigan no Kamae
Hidari Seigan no Kamae
Hira Ichimonji no Kamae
Hoko no Kamae
Bobi no Kamae

Shoden no Kata
Yokuto
O Gyaku
Koyoku
Shito
Hosoku
Hoteki
Shato
Keto
Saku Geki
Tan Geki
Batsu Gi
Setto
Shihaku
Kyogi
Kakko
Ura Nami
Ten Chi
Kata Maki

Chuden no Kata
Hida
Hisaku
Hicho
Hito
Kappi
Nonpi
Suito
Go Hi
He Hi
Teki Gaeshi
Koto
Kakuhi

Okuden no Kata
Santo
Santo
Koto
Shinsen
Kompi
Sho Setsu
So Setsu
Soto
Ko no Ki
Kimon
Ran Setsu
Ura Kimon

Hekito no Kata
Soku Boku
Boku Hen
Damara
Shuto / Shuruki
Kibo
Batsu Yo
Kuahi / Kahi
Sako Ryoku / Seki Ryoku

Posted on: 2010/2/14 3:57
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Re: Kotō Ryū Kata Kanji and Translation Request
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Well, my 1st thought was that all the Kanji is listed in the "Unarmed..." book by Hatsumi Sôke, but naturally they aren't nearly all translated there, and it isn't copy/pasteable.

Next was the old and boring "have you asked your teacher"?

Posted on: 2010/2/14 6:30
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Re: Kotō Ryū Kata Kanji and Translation Request
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I agree with Ari, sensei put out the reference "Unarmed Techniques of the Samurai" which should be used ahead of all these incorrect notes and translations that were floating around. I do have a bit of inside knowledge because I was there at the time in the discussion with a shihan and sensei over the exchange of ryuha notes on the internet and in particular the selling of technique descriptions. From my understanding the book is there to end this industry.

The kanji names are in the book at the back. If you are interested in the meanings of the names I suggest more study since there is no simple translation for most things.

You can invest in a good kanji dictionary or I can suggest using this:
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1R
to look up kanji and examine the (possible) meanings.

Posted on: 2010/2/14 7:48
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Re: Kotō Ryū Kata Kanji and Translation Request
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Quote:

Yamazu wrote:
Well, my 1st thought was that all the Kanji is listed in the "Unarmed..." book by Hatsumi Sôke, but naturally they aren't nearly all translated there, and it isn't copy/pasteable.

Next was the old and boring "have you asked your teacher"?


Ari, my first thought wne seeing your response was 'do you have the information to be able to answer to my query or not'. Honestly, if you don't have the information, then is your response really all that helpful? After all, the point of having a forum like this is to provide a place where people can ask questions and share knowledge. If we beat people down with the ""have you asked your teacher" response then we defeat the purpose of the forum, don't we?

There are times when referring a person back to their teacher is clearly an appropriate answer. However, there are other times when it comes off as condescending.

Queries about some of the more obscure or hard to find things go beyond the "have you asked your teacher" arena, especially if the person asking the question is a teacher. As for my own teacher, while he is extremely helpful and knowledgeable, I have a pretty good handle of what he can and can't answer. I know for a fact that his knowlesge od the Japanese language is in close proximity to mine as we both too the same Japanese classes in college (using the same text books but at differfent colleges). Additionally, the other teachers in the area are not likely to have that sort of information either. In such a case, brining the query to a broader forum makes more sense.

Now, Ari, consider this. Out of all the Bujinkan instructors (excluding Japanese Shihan who are not directly accessible to most of us) you know, how many do you think would be able to provide the information I'm asking for. You probably know two ot three (who probably live and train in Japan) . Most everyone else probably does not have that information.

So, before pulling out the "have you asked your teacher" response we should stop and carefully consider the nature of the question at hand and the person asking it.

My apologies for getting on a soap box about this but I've seen that answer given to too many good people who honestly deserve a better response than "have you asked your teacher".

Posted on: 2010/2/14 7:51
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Re: Kotō Ryū Kata Kanji and Translation Request
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Quote:

Zenigata wrote:
I agree with Ari, sensei put out the reference "Unarmed Techniques of the Samurai" which should be used ahead of all these incorrect notes and translations that were floating around. I do have a bit of inside knowledge because I was there at the time in the discussion with a shihan and sensei over the exchange of ryuha notes on the internet and in particular the selling of technique descriptions. From my understanding the book is there to end this industry.

The kanji names are in the book at the back. If you are interested in the meanings of the names I suggest more study since there is no simple translation for most things.

You can invest in a good kanji dictionary or I can suggest using this:
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1R
to look up kanji and examine the (possible) meanings.


First of all, I am not in any industry and I am not selling anything. My notes are for me, my students and my friends who train in the Bujinkan.

Second, I have actually used that and other online Kanji dictionaries. While it can be done, it is extremely time consuming and difficult. Even then, sometimes what you are looking for is just not there. When I was putting together my kyu material for my students, I went the kanji dictionary route, it was a long, painful process. If someone had the kanji already and were willing to share them it would make this process much easier adn I would be very grateful.

Posted on: 2010/2/14 8:02
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Re: Kotō Ryū Kata Kanji and Translation Request
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Ari, my first thought wne seeing your response was 'do you have the information to be able to answer to my query or not'. Honestly, if you don't have the information, then is your response really all that helpful? After all, the point of having a forum like this is to provide a place where people can ask questions and share knowledge. If we beat people down with the ""have you asked your teacher" response then we defeat the purpose of the forum, don't we?


I have the names and notes of each technique after training with the Shihan in Japan. So I am qualified to say this.

I believe the point everyone is trying to make is: Before coming on public forum making demands. You first need to go and practice it for yourself. When you visit Japan actually train at the Hombu and other shihan instead spending most of your time at temples and shrines. If you want to spend most of your time doing other things in Japan other than train that is your perogative. You shouldn't later be expecting others to share there hard work without you even getting your hands dirty first. So get off of your ass!

How can you expect to teach it if you haven't learned it yourself? Just bringing in good instructors to teach your students is helpful but you should be able to teach them as well. Especially if you are going to call yourself an instructor because if not then you are simply an events coordinator. "Oniyama Promotions!"

Forums are used to share information between individuals. Depending on the type of information you have to earn the right. You should also ideally have some competent understanding in said knowledge before being privy to more info. You have neither!

Your excuse was you were to lazy to look it up and compile it. I wouldn't be surprised if that is how you approach most of your training and that ultimately reflects in your skill level.

Posted on: 2010/2/14 9:01
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Re: Kotō Ryū Kata Kanji and Translation Request
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Quote:

jwills79 wrote:

I believe the point everyone is trying to make is: Before coming on public forum making demands.


First of all, I was asking, not demanding. There is a big differnce.

Quote:

jwills79 wrote:
You first need to go and practice it for yourself. When you visit Japan actually train at the Hombu and other shihan instead spending most of your time at temples and shrines. If you want to spend most of your time doing other things in Japan other than train that is your perogative. You shouldn't later be expecting others to share there hard work without you even getting your hands dirty first. So get off of your ass!


What is this? So far I have made two trips to Japan. On both trips the majority of my time was spent training as much as my financial resources allowed. While, yes I did visit some shrines, it is not what I spent most of my time doing. Could you please clarify on what you are basing this accusation that on my trips to Japan I spent most of my time sight seeing and not training?

Quote:

jwills79 wrote:
How can you expect to teach it if you haven't learned it yourself? Just bringing in good instructors to teach your students is helpful but you should be able to teach them as well. Especially if you are going to call yourself an instructor because if not then you are simply an events coordinator. "Oniyama Promotions!"


Yes, I have brought in teachers to give seminars, just like many other who run dojos. I am also to teach my students and do so in every class. Again, you are making an accusation, this time that I don't teach but merely coordinate seminars. Could you please state what you are basing this accusation on. Have you been to my class? Have you seen me teach. Have you seen the training material I provide for my students?

Quote:

jwills79 wrote:
Forums are used to share information between individuals. Depending on the type of information you have to earn the right. You should also ideally have some competent understanding in said knowledge before being privy to more info. You have neither!


You know, I've actually been teaching Koto Ryu kata to my students for a few years now. The information for which I was asking (not demanding) is something for which I feel I have a reasonable right to ask. Now you have made a third accusation. This time you have accused me of being incompetent and have no knowledge of the subject matter. I again ask you upon what are you basing this? How do you know my knowledge level? What do you really know about my competence?

Quote:

jwills79 wrote:
Your excuse was you were to lazy to look it up and compile it. I wouldn't be surprised if that is how you approach most of your training and that ultimately reflects in your skill level.


If you saw the training materials that I provided my students you would not call me lazy. For an example, e-mail privately at instructor@roundrockbujinkan.com and I'll send you over the work I did on Gyokko Ryu so you can get a better idea of what I'm working on.

As far as laziness goes, I am going to issue you a little challenge. Pick one level of Koto Ryu (that should be about 8 to 18 kata) and try to find the Kanji and translations for those kata using only an online kanji dictionary. I've done just that for my kyu material and my Gyokko Ryu notes. I can tell you that it is the difference between a few hours and possibly weeks. It is no a trivial endeavor.

Regarding my skill level, as far as I know, we have never met in person. If I am mistaken in this, please let me know where we have met. Otherwise, as far as I can tell, you have no basis upon which to speak about my skill level, either as an individual or as a teacher. That being the case, so there can be no question, I invite you to come to my class and see for yourself. That is a standing open invitation. That is not an invitation to a fight but an invitation to come and legitimately train so you can see for yourself what I am actually about. Additionally, if you like, I can put you in touch with some of my students and fellow instructors and let you ask them privately how competent an instructor I am. If you are not willing to take me up on my offer, then please stop making baseless accusations.

Posted on: 2010/2/14 9:49
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Re: Kotō Ryū Kata Kanji and Translation Request
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Oniyama,

The fact you feel you have a "Right to something" proves you have lost this discussion from the beginning. If you can't handle the conversation in this thread then what makes you think a new one asking the same thing will change the situation?

People have given you advice and you sperned it. You still feel you have a right to something. What are you basing this assumption on?

Posted on: 2010/2/14 12:16
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Re: Kotō Ryū Kata Kanji and Translation Request
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Quote:

jwills79 wrote:
Oniyama,

The fact you feel you have a "Right to something" proves you have lost this discussion from the beginning. If you can't handle the conversation in this thread then what makes you think a new one asking the same thing will change the situation?

People have given you advice and you sperned it. You still feel you have a right to something. What are you basing this assumption on?


I have as much right to ask a question as anyone else. Similarly, a person has the right to provide or not provide said information. I will agree that there is some information that in our system that is not for public consumption. What I am asking for is not the scroll to Gikan ryu or some other peice of higher level information. The kanji and translations I am asking for have, at least partially, already been made public in some areas (Senseis books have the kanji and sometimes the translations show up in videos but not all the transaltions are easily available), just not in a form that is readily useable for what I am doing.

As far as spurning the suggestions that have been made, on the first suggestion of "go ask you teacher" I could see how that could be called spurning. The fact is that so many people on this forum use that as a default answer I find to be a bit condescending and certainly not helpful. Granted, there are some things, especially asked by new students, where it would be appropriate to refer someone back to their instructor. However, there are some things where this is not productive for anyone. In my case, I have known the shihan in my area for years (some over a decade). Overtime I have been able to discern what knowledge they are able to provide and what they are not. Believe me, If I thought that they were going to be able to readily provide the information, I would be taking the question to them and not here.

As far as the suggestion of using an online kanji dictionary goes, I was not spurning the idea as much as pointing out how, while it is a useful tool, it is extremely limited. I believe I did state that I had been down that road before (many times, in fact). It is a long road and, sometimes, an inaccurate one. So, what I was trying to explain was the problems in using that option. It was not intended to be spurning.

For the record, I have sent Ari and Duncan private messages regarding the tone of my responses to their posts. I have to admit that the whole "Go ask you teacher" response is something that I find a bit off putting and I do recognized how that might have shaped my responses.

In my previous response to you I asked a few questions that you are yet to answer. Because you did call my character into question, I would really appreciate some answers. Let me ask them again in a more clarified manner.

Have we ever met? If so, when and where?

Have we ever trained together? If so, when and where?

Have you ever seen me teach a class? If so, when and where?

Beyond what you are assuming about me on this forum, what do you really know about my knowledge level or competency?

Have you ever seen the training materials I have produced for my students and the bulk of work I have put into those materials.

Upon what to you base the statement that I spent most of my time visiting shrines and temples instead of training.

I'd like to address that last question. For the record on both of my trips to Japan I was there for a couple of weeks. Let's call it 14 days (I think it may be longer but we'll say 14 days). On the first trip I was gone for a day and a half to visit with Rev. Patricia Ormsby on the Kompira Shrine in Takao (near Takao Sanguchi). At the time I was fairly active in Shinto and Rev. Ormsby and I had met online through another Shinto Priestess. So yes, I was away for that time period. the rest of the time I was training as much as my financial resources would allow, which was most of the time. On my second trip I again made a shrine trip with Rev. Ormsby, this time to the Grand Tsubaki Shrine in Mie Prefecture. (This was a special visit that was arranged by Rev. Koichi Barrish of the Tsubaki Grand Shrine of America so I was pretty obligated to go.)I also visited the Ninja museum while I was in the area. Again, most of my time was reserved for training as my finances allowed. Now in order to qualify the statement that I was out visiting shrines and temples "most of the time" I would have had to be doing such visits for at least half of my trip to Japan. One or two days does not even come close to half of a two week trip to Japan, now does it? So by what measure do you qualify "most of the time"?

I think you are making a number of assumptions about be based on an internet forum post from which it it is highly difficult to surmise a person's true nature. You've made some statements about me that I feel are inaccurate and, to be blunt, insulting. I would really appreciate some answers to the questions I posed to you.

Posted on: 2010/2/14 13:24
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Re: Kotō Ryū Kata Kanji and Translation Request
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jwills79 wrote:
Oniyama,

The fact you feel you have a "Right to something" proves you have lost this discussion from the beginning.


I would like to come back to this because, after thinking about it I don't think I made myself as clear as I would like.

Just to be clear, I don't feel that anyone owes me this information. I am not coming from any sort of inflated sense of entitlement. That is not the place I am coming from so please do not paint me so. I do feel that I have as much right to ask the question as anyone else. I expect that if anyone does provide me the information I am asking for it will be out of the goodness of their heart. I am certainly not asking anyone to do anything that I would not do for them (or have already done for others.) As I said before, I am only asking, not demanding.

Quote:

jwills79 wrote:

If you can't handle the conversation in this thread then what makes you think a new one asking the same thing will change the situation?


I can handle the conversation in this thread. I'm still here. I'm not running away. This thread went way off course. That is why I started a new thread, hopefully, one that will stay on its original topic. As far as handling "conversation in this thread" goes, I am here and ready.

Posted on: 2010/2/14 13:53
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