Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Socialize
 

Recent Topics

Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users



« 1 (2)


Re: Kotō Ryū Kata Kanji and Translation Request
Active Kutakian
Joined:
2003/6/29 21:19
From Round Rock, Texas
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 107
Offline
I just wanted to post this to illustrate the issues with using an online kanji dictionary. Now it can be a useful too, and I have used it a lot in my previous student notes. However it is limited, particularly when dealing with kata names. I will admit my Japanese stops at about the basic college level.

Here is what the Kanji dictionary pulls up for Kotō (as in Kotō Ryū) as well as Ko and tō. Also searched for were the kanji 虎倒

Searching kotou...

古刀 ( ことう) (kotou) (n)- old sword

孤島 ( ことう) (kotou) (n)- solitary island

孤灯 ( ことう) (kotou) (n)- solitary light

弧灯 ( ことう) (kotou) (n)- arc lamp

湖東 ( ことう) (kotou) (loc)- Kotou

Searching 虎倒...
Search '虎倒' caused no hits.

Searching 虎...
虎 ( とら) (tora) (n)- tiger (feline, Panthera tigris)

Searching 倒...
Search '倒' caused no hits.

Searching ko...
ケーオー (kēō) (n) (vs) - knock-out
- KO

估 ( こ) (ko) (n) - business
- price
- selling

個 ( こ) (ko) (1) (2) (n) (suf) - counter for articles and military units
- individual

児 ( こ) (ko) (n) - child
- the young of animals

古 ( こ) (ko) - (n-pref) old

子 ( こ) (ko) (n) (n-suf) - child

巨 ( こ) (ko) (n) - big
- great
- large

弧 ( こ) (ko) (n) - arc

戸 ( こ) (ko) (n) - counter for houses

故 ( こ) (ko) (pref) - the late (deceased)

湖 ( こ) (ko) (suf) - lake (in place names)

粉 ( こ) (ko) (n) - flour
- meal
- powder


( こ) (ko) (n) - crime
- fault
- sin

Dictionary search

Searching tou...
トウ (tou) (n) - toe

偸 ( とう) (tou) (n) - steal

僮 ( とう) (tou) (n) - child
- foolishness
- servant

党 ( とう) (tou) (1) (2) (n) (n-suf) - -ite
- faction
- party (political)

凍 ( とう) (tou) (n) - being frozen over
- congealing

刀 ( とう) (tou) (n) - engraving tool
- knife
- saber
- sabre
- sword

剳 ( とう) (tou) (n) - sickle

唐 ( とう) (tou) (n) - T'ang-Dynasty (China 618-907)

問う ( とう) (tou) (1) (2) (3) (4) (vt) - to accuse
- to ask
- to care (about)
- to charge (i.e. with a crime)
- to inquire
- to question
- without regard to (with negative verb)

塔 ( とう) (tou) (loc) - Tou

塔 ( とう) (tou) (n) (n-suf) - pagoda
- tower

島 ( とう) (tou) (suf) - island (in placenames)

当 ( とう) (tou) (pref) - this (business organisation or place)

戸宇 ( とう) (tou) (loc) - Tou

棟 ( とう) (tou) (n) (n-suf) - building (e.g., in postal address)
- place
- section

灯 ( とう) (tou) (1) (n) - lamp
- lamplight
- light

等 ( とう) (tou) (n) (n-suf) (uk) - and the like
- et cetera
- etc.

籐 ( とう) (tou) (n) - cane
- rattan

糖 ( とう) (tou) (n) (n-suf) - sugar

蝪 ( とう) (tou) (n) - ground spider

訪う ( とう) (tou) (1) (2) (3) (4) (vt) - to accuse
- to ask
- to care (about)
- to charge (i.e. with a crime)
- to inquire
- to question
- without regard to (with negative verb)

頭 ( とう) (tou) (n) - counter for large animals, e.g., head of cattle

You can see there is a fair amount to sift through 倒 doesn't even come up unless you tell the online dictionary to NOT do an exact search. Even then it comes up within other things and not by itself.

Now, fortunately, yes, some of this can be cross referenced against Sensei's book and I have spent days on previous material doing just that. If need be, I'll do it again. For those who suggested using a kanji dictionary, I thank you. I know you were trying to help.

Posted on: 2010/2/14 14:31
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Kotō Ryū Kata Kanji and Translation Request
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2010/1/13 13:26
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 173
Offline
Quote:

Oniyama wrote:
Second, I have actually used that and other online Kanji dictionaries. While it can be done, it is extremely time consuming and difficult. Even then, sometimes what you are looking for is just not there. When I was putting together my kyu material for my students, I went the kanji dictionary route, it was a long, painful process. If someone had the kanji already and were willing to share them it would make this process much easier adn I would be very grateful.


My point is that just cutting and pasting something in may be easy but not necessarily correct. If you really want to know something (as in this case the meaning of the kata names) then you will need to put the time and research in yourself. For example a kata name may be a phrase from a death poem of a historical figure who is connected to an incident which relates to an idea behind a kata. In other words many of these names are extremely cryptic. When you say "it is extremely time consuming and difficult" I wonder if you understand just how time consuming and difficult it would be to become well read enough in Japanese history and historical literature to translate many of these names?

If you don't need to know what the meaning of a kata name is then don't worry about it - the romanji name is as good as any. If it matters to you then you will need to do the research and looking up the meaning of the kanji is the first step.

Posted on: 2010/2/14 14:48
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Kotō Ryū Kata Kanji and Translation Request
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2010/1/13 13:26
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 173
Offline
Quote:

Oniyama wrote:
I just wanted to post this to illustrate the issues with using an online kanji dictionary...


I think you need to search for kanji by radical rather than romanji.

I also find an old edition of "Beginners' Dictionary of Chinese-Japanese Characters with Commmon Abbreviations, Variants and Compounds" by Authur Ross-Innes very useful in finding the outdated kanji often used in the Bujinkan. Old copies of this dictionary are like gold

http://cgi.ebay.com/Beginners-Diction ... m1c1015a931#ht_500wt_1111

Posted on: 2010/2/14 15:04
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Kotō Ryū Kata Kanji and Translation Request
Active Kutakian
Joined:
2003/6/29 21:19
From Round Rock, Texas
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 107
Offline
Quote:

Zenigata wrote:

If you don't need to know what the meaning of a kata name is then don't worry about it - the romanji name is as good as any. If it matters to you then you will need to do the research and looking up the meaning of the kanji is the first step.


Hi Duncan,

This may give you and idea of what I'm looking for:

Renyo (輦與, れんよ) - Imperial Palanquin, Imperial Carriage, Emperor's Cart

That is about as far as I am taking it at this time. My understanding is that some of the meanigs for the names of many kata have actually been lost over time. For many kata the level of explanation in the example for Renyo may be as far as will ever be available. It would certainly be nice to know the deeper meanings as to why different kata are named the way they are. However, I'm doing good if I just get the kanji and a reasonable translation.

Perhaps, if I sent you my Gyokko Ryu notes you might have a better idea of what I'm doing. Would it be alright if I sent those to you?

Posted on: 2010/2/14 15:16
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Kotō Ryū Kata Kanji and Translation Request
Active Kutakian
Joined:
2003/6/29 21:19
From Round Rock, Texas
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 107
Offline
Quote:

Zenigata wrote:
Quote:

Oniyama wrote:
I just wanted to post this to illustrate the issues with using an online kanji dictionary...


I think you need to search for kanji by radical rather than romanji.

I also find an old edition of "Beginners' Dictionary of Chinese-Japanese Characters with Commmon Abbreviations, Variants and Compounds" by Authur Ross-Innes very useful in finding the outdated kanji often used in the Bujinkan. Old copies of this dictionary are like gold

http://cgi.ebay.com/Beginners-Diction ... m1c1015a931#ht_500wt_1111


Thanks for the suggestion, Duncan. I'll look into that.

Posted on: 2010/2/14 15:21
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Kotō Ryū Kata Kanji and Translation Request
Active Kutakian
Joined:
2003/6/29 21:19
From Round Rock, Texas
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 107
Offline
I just want to say a quick thank you to the person who privately e-mailed me almost all of the kanji for the Koto Ryu kata. Thank you so, so, so much! I really appreciate this. You've just saved me weeks of work. Again, thanks.

Posted on: 2010/2/15 13:29
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Kotō Ryū Kata Kanji and Translation Request
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2010/1/13 13:26
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 173
Offline
位取
右正眼之構
左正眼之構
平一文字之構
抱圍之構
防備之構

初伝型
抒投
押虚
抗抒
捉倒
捕捉
放擲
斜倒
掛倒
搾撃
擔撃
抜技
折倒
指拍
拒技
括拷
浦波
天地
片巻

壁刀型
蹴扑
扑返
打和
手力
跂望
跋扈
跖力
跨飛

中伝之型
飛打
飛搾
飛鳥
飛倒
括飛
捫飛
夊倒
鼯飛
撇飛
擲返
喉倒
攫飛

奥伝之型
攅當
攅倒
虎倒
神剪
梱飛
挐摺
抓摺
抓倒
扣鬼
鬼門
乱雪
裏鬼門

Posted on: 2010/2/15 22:45
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Kotō Ryū Kata Kanji and Translation Request
Active Kutakian
Joined:
2003/6/29 21:19
From Round Rock, Texas
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 107
Offline
Thanks, Duncan! I appreciate all the help.

Posted on: 2010/2/15 23:46
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer



« 1 (2)




[Advanced Search]


Today's Sponsor