Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Socialize
 

Recent Topics

Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users



« 1 (2) 3 »


Re: Changing Tide?
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2010/1/13 13:26
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 173
Offline
When I started in the eighties there where a few newsletters going around, also there were people training in Japan sending faxes to our dojo in Perth. I remember particularly a copy of a fax I have titled “Ninpo Vocabulary” which I think originated from Ben Jones – quality you never see in the forums or blogs of today.

Technology changed but the format remained similar with various email newsletters such as “Omote and Ura”, Kamaemail and “Ninpo News” going around. These tended to fade out with technology eliminating the need to have information sorted and resent out by an editor. Ninpo-L and other mailing lists became popular which moved to bulletin boards such as this and e-budo.

Bulletin boards are efficient and quick in exchanging information but moderation is always a problem. As Peter King wrote to me when I moderated e-budo for a short time “The emptiest cans make the most noise”. Also the format is a hard medium and you have to have a thick skin. The problems were attempted to be managed in various ways the most notable being insisting on having people post signing their name. This approach is good in helping people to fix their name to their comments but also scares some good people off but doesn’t discourage others who are the most vocal.

A few senior people including one shihan suggested that the person rank be included in their signature, I remember getting this advice and suggesting it here but being badly shot down.

These days blogs in particular and social networking sites such as facebook and youtube seem to have become the popular medium. I think people involved in training at a higher level who want to share information and opinions prefer to create a blog for this purpose.

When you look at it I think there is more useful information / opinion written in blogs than there ever was on internet forums.

I think Shawn has done a good thing keeping kutaki going and it still has a place. It is a lot quieter but than that can also be looked upon as a good thing.

Honourable mention should also be made to George Ohashi’s Hombu website which he has maintained for many many years by himself and remains the most important source for Bujinkan traiing information.

Posted on: 2010/2/24 8:03
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Changing Tide?
Village Old Timer
Joined:
2004/8/3 11:03
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
Posts: 565
Offline
Thanks Ed.

Care to answer the second question?

Posted on: 2010/2/24 8:59
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Changing Tide?
Cant Stay Offline
Joined:
2003/6/13 23:29
From Pennsylvania, USA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
師導士会 :: Shidoshikai
Posts: 1834
Offline
OK, it simply is that when a person has set up their own martial art, they also can choose how to define it. It is not our place to determine how that is done, we only can choose to be part of it or not. That video is how they choose to test in his system for rank and it is a very military oriented system. If you are part of it, it becomes your concern, if not it isn't. I am only concerned with the Bujinkan as that is the only art I am part of. Does that answer the question Syd?

Posted on: 2010/2/24 14:13
_________________
Ed Martin aka Papa-san
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Changing Tide?
Village Old Timer
Joined:
2004/8/3 11:03
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
Posts: 565
Offline
It does, but I will disagree with the part about it not being anyone's concern if they are not part of the art.

What I saw concerned me.

Posted on: 2010/2/24 15:04
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Changing Tide?
Active Kutakian
Joined:
2009/3/18 12:31
From Redmond, Washington
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 108
Offline
These guys seem to be seriously off the chart....

Speaking for myself, I don't really like the idea of fat-ass camo-clad "ninjers" LARPing on the Mexico border with hardware.

If they're so much into reality-based training, maybe they should hang out in Juarez or Nuevo Laredo...there's no doubt plenty of heavily armed potential ukes working for the cartels who could really help them earn that black belt.

Posted on: 2010/2/24 15:30
_________________
John du Pre Gauntt

Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Changing Tide?
Occasional Visitor
Joined:
2010/2/21 17:16
From Australia
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 7
Offline
Ed,
Thank you for continuing to offer aid to those in need. I am very familiar with the epidemic that you are referring to. in my professional life I am a computer ninja. And I regularly see how the anonymity of the internet lends a large volume of courage to those with a lot of time and little thought.

Posted on: 2010/2/24 19:52
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Changing Tide?
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2007/5/5 18:02
From South East UK
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 221
Offline
I think use of the internet itself is in decline, as more of us realise we are spending what will amount to whole years of our lives online.

Or they have all become Facebook junkies and are busy poking each other.

We also realise that as a physical subject matter, it is best described with actions on the mat rather than words.

Posted on: 2010/2/24 21:56
_________________
Stop, take a deep breath, and everybody say "Auuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmnnnnn".
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Changing Tide?
Cant Stay Offline
Joined:
2003/6/13 23:29
From Pennsylvania, USA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
師導士会 :: Shidoshikai
Posts: 1834
Offline
I would understand your point on this too Syd, as you do not know the person and so may well have concerns with what you saw on that video. Peter's background is the Vietnam war and he does a lot with the training of marines there in California. I have gone with him on one such training session for the marines. So quite possibly I have a completely different view of this since I do know these gents pretty well. Would I test this way? No, but then I am in the Bujinkan and I have different priorities. That doesn't change my respect for him or my willingness to be an influence which aids his growth and skills is our art.

Posted on: 2010/2/24 22:19
_________________
Ed Martin aka Papa-san
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Changing Tide?
Cant Stay Offline
Joined:
2003/6/13 23:29
From Pennsylvania, USA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
師導士会 :: Shidoshikai
Posts: 1834
Offline
There is a clip of me on utube RochyH, of my last trip to Sydney last March. It was a special that was on channel 9's Good Morning Australia. You may find it interesting. The ones there helping me were from the Hoshin system and very good people.

Posted on: 2010/2/24 22:26
_________________
Ed Martin aka Papa-san
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Changing Tide?
村長 :: Sonchou
Joined:
2003/1/24 17:34
From Chiba, Japan
Group:
村長 :: Admin
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 1546
Offline
Thanks for that response - it's quite informative for this topic, I think.

Quote:

Zenigata wrote:
When I started in the eighties there where a few newsletters going around, also there were people training in Japan sending faxes to our dojo in Perth. I remember particularly a copy of a fax I have titled “Ninpo Vocabulary” which I think originated from Ben Jones – quality you never see in the forums or blogs of today.


I was still doing Karate in the 80's, so I wasn't around for those faxes. Nice "retro"! :) And yes, Ben Jones is the Man when it comes to translation. Nobody in Japan, even those who have been here for 20+ years, can translate as well as he can - he's great in the "standard" dialect and also fluent in several other regional dialects as well. Any translators in Soke's classes should automatically defer to him when he's visiting, in my opinion. His website: http://www.japanesetranslations.co.uk/bujinkan/benjones.htm


Quote:
Technology changed but the format remained similar with various email newsletters such as “Omote and Ura”, Kamaemail and “Ninpo News” going around. These tended to fade out with technology eliminating the need to have information sorted and resent out by an editor. Ninpo-L and other mailing lists became popular which moved to bulletin boards such as this and e-budo.


More "blasts from the past". :)

I was active on the Ninpo-L mailing list circa 1998, as an anonymous subscriber. One of my favorite threads was one where I challenged the post of a well-known American "Shihan" for his take on something that Soke had said at a class when he was in Japan. He posted it after going back to the US, and I said that he wasn't saying was Soke had said. He got quite defensive, and wanting to stay anonymous, I never actually came out and said that I disagreed because I had been the one translating in Sensei's class on the day he was talking about... :)

One "link" in the chain missing here is the IRC channel on the Undernet IRC network. I registered it in 1996, the year before I moved to Japan, and was able to make friendships with Mike Lunam, Mark Lithgow, Mike Pearce, and our own Kutakian, Jan Ramboer through this medium. I forget when it was when I relinquished the channel manager position... maybe 2002? We used to have some good exchanges on there. It was very addictive at the time, like the Facebook of the late 90's. :)

In 1999, I tried to start a forum for Bujinkan practitioners in Canada with the hope of getting everybody talking, to get over regional/political differences and help people to establish a better connection with Japan. Political problems prevented it from going anywhere, and so I started a forum that was open to everyone, but focused on the Bujinkan because I was tired of what I saw happening at e-budo. That forum was before long named Kutaki no Mura, and here we are - 10 years later!

Quote:
Bulletin boards are efficient and quick in exchanging information but moderation is always a problem. As Peter King wrote to me when I moderated e-budo for a short time “The emptiest cans make the most noise”. Also the format is a hard medium and you have to have a thick skin. The problems were attempted to be managed in various ways the most notable being insisting on having people post signing their name. This approach is good in helping people to fix their name to their comments but also scares some good people off but doesn’t discourage others who are the most vocal.


Yes, moderation is a huge problem. :)
Moderate too much and you're a elitist Nazi pig; too little and the forums degenerate into a mess. It's hard to find people who will consistently log in and check things over a sustained period of time, as everyone has other life commitments such as work, family, training, etc.

This reminds me of one time when someone made some disparaging comments about a Japanese shihan who wasn't so politically popular at the time. The next night I had a knock at my door from one of that Shihan's Japanese students wanting to know what was going on with my website and why I allowed people to talk in such a way. These kind of factors mean that I can't manage this Japan-based forum the same way that somebody overseas can. It makes it an interesting challenge.

In the past few years I had to completely ban 2 or 3 individuals based on their IP address, meaning I had to look into where they were accessing the forums from. In the process I got to know about their patterns of web-surfing, their employers, the hours they spent debating on Kutaki when they should have been working, the names of their employers and bosses and a number of other things that I shouldn't have had to waste my time on. Kutaki became a more civil, respectful place as a result - and I had to exercise more censorship than I'd hoped I'd have to.

Quote:
A few senior people including one shihan suggested that the person rank be included in their signature, I remember getting this advice and suggesting it here but being badly shot down.


I personally think that's a good idea from a theoretical standpoint (and a logistical nightmare from a practical one). It may still become more practically feasible in the future when the software that Kutaki runs on is developed to the point that it's easier to manage things like that.

Quote:
These days blogs in particular and social networking sites such as facebook and youtube seem to have become the popular medium. I think people involved in training at a higher level who want to share information and opinions prefer to create a blog for this purpose.

When you look at it I think there is more useful information / opinion written in blogs than there ever was on internet forums.


This is a good point, and it's also true that blogs tend to be a "one-way" mechanism rather than a discussion mechanism. One person with a well-known blog here in Japan told me that he aggressively moderates the comments on his blog to filter out the "losers". This means that the blogger can keep comments that agree with what he/she says and remove those that disagree or express opinions that he/she doesn't like. Another form of censorship or whatever you might like to call it. And it's that person's right to do so. One thing I have really tried to do here is to retain posts that people make - including my own - even if the original poster later regrets them. I can't count the number of times that people have messaged me and asked me to delete something that they posted. And I had to reply, Hey, I've made posts that made myself look bad as well, and I haven't deleted them. In my opinion this is a combination of personal integrity in standing behind what you say, and in not saying something if you don't mean it, and in knowing the nature of the Internet and how posts can tend to hang around and haunt you. We all have to live with that reality on the Internet.

Quote:
I think Shawn has done a good thing keeping kutaki going and it still has a place. It is a lot quieter but than that can also be looked upon as a good thing.


Thanks for that comment - much appreciated. Yes, quiet lately, but like you said... not always a bad thing.

Shawn

Posted on: 2010/2/28 18:35
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer



« 1 (2) 3 »




[Advanced Search]


Today's Sponsor