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Re: Disturbing trend...
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Quote:

Papa-san wrote:
OK Benkyoka, you criticise both Jock and Peter with whom I do have personal knowledge and respect for. DO YOU OR HAVE YOU EVER MET THEM? You make a judgement on presumptions, have you not yet learned in your life to be careful about presumptions? Yes Peter Brusso created his own style but does teach his students effective things and he has had real combat, have you? Jock has also had REAL life experience in these areas, he was also a bodyguard from Queen Elizabeth and I did see a picture of them talking. So you criticism people without really knowing them. Do you not have things in your life that you now regret doing, and things that others "spun" in ways that are not true?? I have experienced such things and until you yourself have been in those shoes just maybe you should suspend judgement until you get personal knowledge.


Sorry, Mr. Martin. I was just posting the result of some quick 'research' on some instructors, just as you recommended. My 'research' would lead me to believe that these gentleman are probably not the kind of teachers I would look for to teach me Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu. It would also lead me to believe that these people would be considered 'part of the problem', to use someone else's words.

Posted on: 2010/6/7 22:12
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Re: Disturbing trend...
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Quote:

Papa-san wrote:
OK Benkyoka, you criticise both Jock and Peter with whom I do have personal knowledge and respect for. DO YOU OR HAVE YOU EVER MET THEM?


I've met Jock, i'm only 3rd Dan and i can honestly say this guys taijutsu is apalling for an 8th Dan, he calls himself Bujinkan Scotland but even Bujinkan Scotland want to distance themselves.

I understand from reading from MAP, you yourself Ed may have graded him 6th, 7th & 8th within a 9th month period, is this so? if so why???



Quote:

Jock has also had REAL life experience in these areas, he was also a bodyguard from Queen Elizabeth and I did see a picture of them talking


now i'm going to call you up on that one, listening to his interview on shrinkrap radio recently he said it was the queen mother not the queen, are you sure he wasnt talking to the statue at madame taussauds in london? I fear his version of his army career then body guard stuff is quite dubious, you may have been sucked in but the Brits dont seem to have been.

Quote:

So you criticism people without really knowing them.


As said above he is well known in Britain, maybe you should talk to other higher ranks before giving him his 10th Dan!!


Quote:

Do you not have things in your life that you now regret doing, and things that others "spun" in ways that are not true??


People are not spinning Jock's BS, they are calling him out for the truth.

Quote:

I have experienced such things and until you yourself have been in those shoes just maybe you should suspend judgement until you get personal knowledge.


Then Ed maybe you should not judge the people out there judging Jock, maybe some of them have seen and done the experience....

Posted on: 2010/6/7 22:34
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Re: Disturbing trend...
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Ed,

In your own advice...how much homework did you do on Jock?

http://www.kutaki.org/modules/newbb/v ... at&order=ASC&type=&mode=0

Posted on: 2010/6/8 0:11
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Re: Disturbing trend...
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Benkyoka, the article you cited mentioning Jock Brocas says, "Strathclyde police say they are investigating several complaints against Brocas", which may mean more than just the gym closure after collecting 150,000 pounds thing. However, I notice that the article is from 2002, which has been a while now.

Surely there has been some resolution of these allegations by now?

Posted on: 2010/6/8 4:22
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Dale Seago
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Re: Disturbing trend...
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Dale,

it depends how it was done, not sure without reading through MAP again but there was no confirmation he folded the company, more so took the money & abandoned it, it showed on companis house that they folded it for him due to no accounts being submitted to them yearly, this in itself is a legal obligation for company formation.

I would hazard a guess he just evaded the issue until it went away...

Posted on: 2010/6/8 5:17
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Re: Disturbing trend...
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Well then, pending more solid information, points to Ed for sticking up for folks he believes in.

Posted on: 2010/6/8 7:26
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Dale Seago
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Re: Disturbing trend...
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The "disturbing trend" with Bujinkan ranks and memberships comes about (in my opinion) from people being prepared to issue rank to people that aren't part of the Isshi Soden process.

With the monkeys in charge of the zoo now where anyone seems to be able to issue rank to anyone else we will get these sorts of situations.

The Bujinkan could eliminate the issuing of rank outside the hombu. Individual dojos and federations could just issue their own rank but we would still be in the same situation as now.

I think the idea is that it is viewed that the shidoshi in charge of a dojo knows best and via the Isshi Soden process issues rank to his students based on his own standards and knowledge.

How some people seem to view it seems to be just a right to give a rank to anyone therefore you get someone in California who thinks it's okay to issue rank by mail order or someone else issuing rank to a guy in another country based on having met him and liked him.

I've even seen a foreign shihan standing in the hombu with a little note book writing off high dan recommendations based on people coming up and asking him - writing off tickets like a parking inspector. What a joke.

People should show some common sense and not be issuing rank outside their own dojo and/or area of influence. We shouldn't have shidoshi from the US issuing rank to anyone in the UK where there are already more than enough qualified people who can do this. If some shidoshi in Scotland wants rank then he needs to make connections and train with good people in the UK -not shop for a soft touch in some other country.

I think a menkyo is like a cheque, the value written on it means nothing unless it is backed up by money in the bank. There are a lot of people writing cheques that bounce.

Posted on: 2010/6/8 9:29
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Re: Disturbing trend...
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Very good points, Duncan. If someone can't get to Japan consistently and there are plenty of shidoshi & shihan in one's region who do, there doesn't seem to be much cause to look outside one's own area for training guidance and ranking. . .

I've been asked occasionally to assume that role for people. Only actually did it twice, both were unmitigated disasters. The last shidoshi-ho I accepted (18 years ago) turned out to be doing drugs, illegally bringing loaded firearms to classes, and using a kids' class he was teaching to try to pick up single MILFS. (or more accurately MHLFs). . .and it was the management of the place where he rented training space that brought this to my attention and asked about his status as a -ho.

I do have someone in another area right now setting up a training group as a shidoshi-ho because he needs bodies to experiment on. However, he "grew up" to sandan in my dojo before relocating out of the area; still considers me his teacher and wants me to guide his progress; and his job brings him frequently back to San Francisco on business, which makes it easy for me to keep tabs on how he's coming along. I really know him, and know I can trust him. Seems more natural this way.

Posted on: 2010/6/8 11:04
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Dale Seago
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Re: Disturbing trend...
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After 4th dan I was not aware that anyone except Dr. Hatsumi could give grading. We can give our recommendation and that is all. Am I mistaken in this? I have a number of times made recommendations, not that often but for a few people who have later had their rank increased again by Sensei. I do believe that with very few exceptions this has been the reality. I never make such a recommendation lightly but will when the situation warrants it in my opinion. There is no monetary gain in any of these as all that goes to Dr. Hatsumi. So why is there these insinuations? In the case of "Scotland" are there those who would seek from personal reasons to hinder what another gets even though he has earned it? I remember the advice to "follow the money" but if there IS no money then what is the reason, is it just anothers ego? I am very curious about this.
I would point out that this is directed at NEITHER Dale or Duncan as I know both these gents well and respect them. Most of my disgust is directed at the keyboard warriors that seem to inhabit almost all clubs on the internet. The reason I continue to post on Kutaki is that it has been relatively free of the worst of this.
A person can complain about a situation but if a workable solution is not offered then that complaining is pointless.




Posted on: 2010/6/8 11:56
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Ed Martin aka Papa-san
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Re: Disturbing trend...
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Quote:

Papa-san wrote:
After 4th dan I was not aware that anyone except Dr. Hatsumi could give grading. We can give our recommendation and that is all. Am I mistaken in this?


As Soke knows very little about the hundreds of yondans appearing before him every year, how is he to make a judgement about who is ready for the next rank or not? In most cases he leaves that to other people and then his name appears on the menkyo.



Quote:

Papa-san wrote: I never make such a recommendation lightly but will when the situation warrants it in my opinion.


Care to share what deliberations you went through when it came to recommending the person being discussed for rank?

Quote:

Papa-san wrote:
There is no monetary gain in any of these as all that goes to Dr. Hatsumi. So why is there these insinuations?


Who said anything about money?

Quote:

Papa-san wrote:
In the case of "Scotland" are there those who would seek from personal reasons to hinder what another gets even though he has earned it?


And how has he earned it? That's what people have a hard time figuring out.

Quote:

Papa-san wrote:
Most of my disgust is directed at the keyboard warriors that seem to inhabit almost all clubs on the internet.


In many cases, the 'keyboard warriors' found on the internet have more time training with an actual teacher than the people being discussed. But they have a keyboard so it must all be hot air.


quote]
Papa-san wrote:
A person can complain about a situation but if a workable solution is not offered then that complaining is pointless.[/quote]

While the past can't be changed, even though some people have tried to have others' rank revoked, if discussions like this cause similar things from not happening in the future, isn't it a good thing?




Posted on: 2010/6/8 12:24
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