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Love at first sight, feeling at first sight.
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Hi all,

I haven't posted in a while but I'm looking for some advice to give a fellow training partner.

I was training with him the other day when he expressed a frustration at his seeming inability to capture the basic form of a technique on the first try. There are a couple of people in class, he argued, that seem to either "get it" on the first try or have a great degree of success on the first try. He has been training one year less than me, being six years in for him.

I told him that the key to my success was to make my movement so that the average third grader could not distinguish my movement from the demo of the technique, and then move from there. That is only partially a joke. Essentially it boils down to attempting the basic movements and discovering my options as I go and the technique usually just falls in my lap. I refine it from there. I make no attempt to analyze the movement until after I try the technique. This was a very unsatisfactory answer to him. I tried explaining that it is possible that the training simply needs more time to soak in for him but does not necessarily mean that he is learning less, or would be less capable of effective application of the training. Again, he was not persuaded.

It is possible that he is simply a slower learner than he would like to be but I doubt this. My experience leads me to believe he is lacking some crucial insight or learning paradigm that would give him the ability he desires.

At first glance one would think that the ability to intuitively recognize the important pieces in a movement would just come with time but he has almost the same amount of time in the Bujinkan as I do. I would argue that you don't need to intuitively recognize the important parts of the movement to successfully perform the technique.

With my current understanding I appear to be less than useful in guiding him to the correct fix for his problem. Any suggestions for my friend? What helps YOU to quickly identify and implement the effectiveness of a technique shown?

Posted on: 2010/6/4 19:08
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"The goal of opening the mind, as with opening the mouth, is to close it again on something solid."
Love and punches,
Nate Hallum
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Re: Love at first sight, feeling at first sight.
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http://tazziedevil.wordpress.com/2010/05/31/transmission/

It takes years of practice to be able to connect the dots of seeing and doing. You have to become aware of yourself and then be able to truely see what is going on.

Most of us spend our entire career working on this!

Marty

Posted on: 2010/6/4 20:56
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"We train to live".
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Re: Love at first sight, feeling at first sight.
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At what speed is he moving while doing (learning) the technique? Until you have gotten the correct 'muscle memory' any fast movement will only slow your learning. Slow the technique way down, look at where the angles are and the balance of both you and your uke are. Look at the distance (space) between you and your uke. Study where he could counter. All of these will aid you. To speed your learning slow your training.

Posted on: 2010/6/5 9:52
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Ed Martin aka Papa-san
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Re: Love at first sight, feeling at first sight.
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I think he would understand that it takes years of practice to become proficient with these things. His frustration is at others in the class with the similar years of experience having more success with the techniques.

The only thing I could offer him is to slow down and listen well during the demonstration and first attempts of the technique.

I will suggest that he slow down more. Knowledge changes belief and therefore behavior. I was hoping that someone may have an insight of the appropriate knowledge for "gaining the eyes of God" as I've heard it put.

How do you learn to see more clearly?

Posted on: 2010/6/5 11:48
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"The goal of opening the mind, as with opening the mouth, is to close it again on something solid."
Love and punches,
Nate Hallum
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Re: Love at first sight, feeling at first sight.
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Quote:

Shinoobie wrote:
How do you learn to see more clearly?


Watch, a lot!!

Learning the basics will teach you what movement they are working from and the more you get used to the Kihon, the more you can see.

Marty

Posted on: 2010/6/5 16:22
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Re: Love at first sight, feeling at first sight.
村長 :: Sonchou
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Hi,

There was a time when I had the same problems that you described he had and I've been struggling with it for a while.

Then after some time, when I went to Japan I realized what was the problem before: I tried to concentrate too much on how the techniques were done.
I tried to catch every little movement, the position of the feet, body, hands, hips, everything.
And therefore I missed how the technique went alive, and therefore I could not do it.
This was the typical case of "grasp all lose all".

In Japan I've learnt how to "watch" and learn loosely, how to feel the technique while it is demonstrated by somebody else.

He should probably have more feeling of the technique while shown, and here comes the importance of the instructor's ability to be able to pass on to him a taste of the feeling of the technique.

In my dojo my students also used to have hard times understanding some techniques, so I talked a lot about the feeling that I had while executing the technique. It almost always helped.
Sometime you just have to pass on the feeling, but to be able to do this you have to know a bit your partner's personality. So that you can speak a common language and he gets what you mean.

It certainly requires empathy at both ends.

Eva

Posted on: 2010/6/6 8:24
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Eva Barbara Bodogan
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