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Re: Read Kacem's New Book(Very disappointing!) Proof wa?
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Quote:

stormy wrote:
Am already on MAP as Kouryuu and cummings is being discussed there, as i said i suggest you read that thread


I'm entertaining Antony Cummins on FB at the moment, one of the things he prides himself on is that Nakashima is not friendly with Takamatsu so they discredit him, in fact it seems that Nakashima has also made claims that are more outrageous and on this review http://blip.tv/file/3751803 its interesting what the guy says around 9.50 minutes.

As he goes through comings book you realise there is no new material in there, its just re-hashed stuff, its about as entertaining as Kawakami or whatever his name is...

Posted on: 2010/6/15 5:14
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Re: Read Kacem's New Book(Very disappointing!) Proof wa?
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Chappers, Stormy and Jibran

We are getting off topic. Regardless if his old book is good or not. We are talking about Kacem's book. Read the title of this thread. Cummings as well as other Bujinkan and X-kan members have come to similar observations about the book. Not just Cummings. Cummings own book writing skills doesn't make his questions any less credible.



Posted on: 2010/6/15 9:55
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Re: Read Kacem's New Book(Very disappointing!) Proof wa?
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Quote:
I'm entertaining Antony Cummins on FB at the moment, one of the things he prides himself on is that Nakashima is not friendly with Takamatsu so they discredit him, in fact it seems that Nakashima has also made claims that are more outrageous and on this review http://blip.tv/file/3751803 its interesting what the guy says around 9.50 minutes. As he goes through comings book you realise there is no new material in there, its just re-hashed stuff, its about as entertaining as Kawakami or whatever his name is...


Chappers,

Kawakami's ninjutsu claims are just as credible as Takamatsu's claims about Ninjutsu.

Similar

1.Neither has proven their teacher was a ninja.

2. Both have ninja books, scrolls and text
Now Hatsumi has them (only Takamatsu's own writing.)
Kawakami's written by someone else. (Family members)

3. Both claim family is descended from Ninja
Takamatsu's has never been proven.
Kawakami had family scrolls, weapons and text.

4. Both have contributed to museums.
Hatsumi actually contributed but he accumulated them
while learning buki from another teacher not Takamatsu.

Kawakami donated actual family ninja weapons.


Difference

1. Takamatsu had training in Kuki, Takagi and Shinden. (Because I'm a certified dentist doesn't mean I am also a qualified heart surgeon. Being skilled in other schools doesn't make his claim about Ninjutsu true without any proof.)

Kawakami claims only Ninjutsu


It seems Kawakami's lineage sounds more credible. Even it has been reconstructed from family texts like Western martials arts are being done today.


Back on topic!

Posted on: 2010/6/15 10:05
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Re: Read Kacem's New Book(Very disappointing!) Proof wa?
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If that's the case, what are your specific major issues with the text. I'm planning to write an email with my main questions, so let me know.

Posted on: 2010/6/15 10:07
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Re: Read Kacem's New Book(Very disappointing!) Proof wa?
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Jibran,

Start with the questions on MAP. You are a member there and you commented on that thread.

Posted on: 2010/6/15 11:23
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Re: Read Kacem's New Book(Very disappointing!) Proof wa?
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Quote:

jwills79 wrote:
I finally got his new book and read through it. The best part of the book were the pictures. They were great! Especially since most of pictures have no relationship to ninjutsu and it's attempt to prove Togakure Ryu's authenticity was weak.

For someone with a PhD and great physical skill, his argument is illogical and at times contradicts itself. If he was writing fiction then it wouldn't matter. He is claiming this is an accurate and possibly the most thorough account of Ninjutsu. If it was thesis then it wouldn't stand up anywhere in Academia.

On top of that he has no sources or references to back up most his claims. He has made the same ole claims about Togakure Ryu without any proof. A PhD knows that is No-No. The sources he did use were almost all written by Takamatsu which still have not been verified by him or anyone else.


He fills the book with a lot of fluff about other schools and the information was also inaccurate. This has been confirmed by both high ranking Bujinkan, X-kan members and others. He also showed no proof that these claims were true. (MAP)

Others who have discussed the book like SkuggVarg on MAP have claimed fault of the publishing company. Really? Didn't you say the same thing about the interview he did with Kwoon too? Is French really that difficult to translate? Has it become so obscure that only small group are able to translate French to English? The two languages share a common base!

Reasons it is not good:

1. He has shown no proof that Togakure Ryu is real.
2. He has a lot of inaccuracies about different Japanese Budo. (verified by others) Which makes you wonder about his claims for ninjutsu.
3. He makes claims of 'truth' without using the same rules of logical argument that any PhD candidate would know to write their thesis. I have read better laid out arguments by Zenigata, RJHillIII and DonRoley despite disagreeing with them.

I would love for Mr. Roley to defend the legitimacy of this book.

SideNote: I have seen a guy on Youtube explaining some of these things alot better than me. I know one reason for his discussion about Kacem's book is to drum up support/interest for his own upcoming book on Ninjutsu. It will be published by the same company as Kacem's book. Despite his motivation he does have some valid points.

Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBkdaAQLM-U Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbETVey3NCY Part 2

Also check out Scottbaioisdead review: (History Book!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzROgUdkLq0&NR=1



Why would you love Don Roley to defend the legitimacy of this book? Does he have a Ph.D in Japanese history?

I'll tell you someone who does: my wife. She also has much experience in getting her writings published. When discussing at length Kacem's new book and all the vitriol that it has spawned, she wanted me to remind people such as yourself of three very important things:

1). This book is not Kacem's thesis, nor was it intended to be published within the academic world. It was intended for general readership, which an entirely different context.

2). Despite what arguments you and others have presented, expecting a publisher to get everything perfect is unrealistic. Whatever flaws in the book can be attributed to Kacem, rest assured that there are at least twice as many flaws that can be attributed to the publisher.

3). All books are subject to what we can refer to as "publisher hyperbole". Any extravagant claims that the book is the greatest thing since sliced bread are the result of the publisher attempted to cull a readership and generate revenue. How exactly did you expect the book to be publicized? Did you think that the publishers would claim that this book was mediocre, boring and redundant? "This book sucks, so don't buy it"? Please....

If you have such a hate-on for Kacem's book, why not openly discuss your thoughts and feelings with the man himself?

I agree that the book has its flaws. But I'm okay with that, as I didn't expect it to be perfect in the first place.

And by the way, Anthony Cummins does not have any valid points. He's an idiot with a stupid haircut who is only interested in drawing attention to himself, nothing more.


- Mark Spada

Posted on: 2010/6/15 11:46
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Re: Read Kacem's New Book(Very disappointing!) Proof wa?
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Very mature.

Anthony Cummins points are not valid because he does not actually back them up. Which is basically what you did here as well.

But please feel free to personally insult me again. It's obviously what trolls such as yourself are best at.


- Mark Spada


You truly are an idiot! You were the one that started name calling.

Quote:
mark spada wrote: And by the way, Anthony Cummins does not have any valid points. He's an idiot with a stupid haircut who is only interested in drawing attention to himself, nothing more


Very mature?

Quote:
Mark Spada wrote: Then you say his points are not valid because he can't back them up.



THAT WAS THE MAIN POINT MR. CUMMINS, BUJINKAN MEMBERS, X-KAN MEMBERS, AND OTHERS WERE SAYING ABOUT KACEM'S BOOK!

Quote:

Mark Spada wrote:1). This book is not Kacem's thesis, nor was it intended to be published within the academic world. It was intended for general readership, which an entirely different context.


When you write a book and say your claims are true and use your credentials as a PhD to show expertise on the subject then you don't need proof?

On the other hand, someone like Mr. Cummins or the other critics on a website do need proof or evidence for any comment they make?

Maybe the fault in you and your wife's logic on this topic is one of the reasons you don't get what the problem is. I used MAYBE, the horror!

Stupidity at it's finest!

Posted on: 2010/6/15 13:36
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Re: Read Kacem's New Book(Very disappointing!) Proof wa?
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JWillz,

Are you Mr Cummins by any chance?

Kidding aside, please dont drag him into the discussion. He is not qualified, period. I would like to remind you that he only uses one text, and one text only to cite his information about ninjutsu; namely the shoninki. He hasnt read it in Japanese but has some obscure translation of it.

If you check in the appendix of the book by Mr Zoughari, there is a nice, neat list of references he used for his research. Its all japanese makimono, densho, historical records and the like. Out of my head there is more than 30 historical records, not one of them written by Takamatsu (these are not even in this list). The list includes the name, writer, date and in some cases small anecdotes. He has read them all! So saying he hasnt had other material than texts from Takamatsu is not correct. The book is about ninjutsu in general (which he is more than qualified to discuss obviously) and some of the ninjutsu which is found in the Bujinkan (where he has personal access to some of the documents). The book is not there to proove the existence of Togakure Ryu or not. Sorry.

Regards / Skuggvarg

Posted on: 2010/6/15 18:13
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Re: Read Kacem's New Book(Very disappointing!) Proof wa?
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Actually jwills, he does raise a good point has anyone here met you outside the interwebs?

Posted on: 2010/6/15 18:42
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Re: Read Kacem's New Book(Very disappointing!) Proof wa?
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it seems Antony has done a review..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBkdaAQLM-U&feature=related

he's a bit of a gimp isnt he...

Posted on: 2010/6/15 20:01
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