Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Socialize
 

Recent Topics
Topic Replies Last Post
TOGAKURE'S TAJ JUTSU 13 Yesterday 12:54
fskopfpatro
Papa San RIP 3 Yesterday 12:43
fskopfpatro
Kito Ryu Ten No Maki 16 Yesterday 12:40
fskopfpatro
Anyone tried Rosetta Stone? 20 2017/12/10 13:18
fskopfpatro
BladesPro 14 2017/12/9 17:45
fskopfpatro

Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users



(1) 2 »


Words From Sensei on the Internet
村長 :: Sonchou
Joined:
2003/1/24 17:34
From Chiba, Japan
Group:
村長 :: Admin
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 1546
Offline
Hi Everyone,

Last Friday night at Hombu Dojo, Hatsumi made some comments at the opening of class about the use of references to the Bujinkan and Hombu on the Internet. He explicitly stated that we should not claim to speak for the Bujinkan or for Hombu Dojo online, and that "there are many stupid people getting into arguments about the Bujinkan on the Internet." Sensei said that if we discuss things, we should do so from the point of view of our own individual dojos and training.

The last part I can clearly see to be an issue with this type of website, as its a discussion forum medium. I would like to encourage those who use this site to keep this in mind. We have to be responsible for our own training and speak from our own personal experience, rather than framing things in a "the Bujinkan is this/that..." type of way. Rather than saying, "In the Bujinkan, we...", it would be better to say, "In my dojo / training, I..."

Please keep this in mind.

Thanks,
Shawn

(It remained unclear as to whether or not Sensei's remarks included things like putting up films of Hombu training on the Internet, the content of blogs of Japan residents, etc. A couple of us intended to ask Sensei about this after class, but there was a line-up of people with gifts and Sensei left pretty quickly after that. Hopefully this can be clarified in the near future to avoid confusion.)

Posted on: 2010/11/10 12:01
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Words From Sensei on the Internet
Cant Stay Offline
Joined:
2003/8/1 23:57
From Hamina, Finland
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
師導士会 :: Shidoshikai
Posts: 1682
Offline
Thanks for the head-up.

In a way that should be given, and even when people explicitly state that they speak from their point of view the readers still might choose to see it as speaking for the whole organization

Especially if the speaker has mileage in the MA and that is known by the reader(s).

I'll do my best to keep this in mind even more diligently.

Posted on: 2010/11/10 22:29
_________________
Ari Julku
Shidōshi
Bujinkan Ōari Dōjō
(Bujinkan Budōka since 1985)
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Words From Sensei on the Internet
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2010/1/13 13:26
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 173
Offline
Quote:

kouryuu wrote:
Sensei said that if we discuss things, we should do so from the point of view of our own individual dojos and training.

We have to be responsible for our own training and speak from our own personal experience, rather than framing things in a "the Bujinkan is this/that..." type of way. Rather than saying, "In the Bujinkan, we...", it would be better to say, "In my dojo / training, I..."


I understand but there is a big cultural shift here. I’m not trying to pick on anyone here but post this message I looked at a few post at random …

Quote:

Darren wrote:
A commonly misunderstood notion is that passing the godan test automatically makes one a shidoshi. This is not true. Being a shidoshi is a separate process AND responsibility and it is purely a personal choice. One could just be a godan and above without technically being a shidoshi and there are some who have made that choice.


Quote:

benkyoka wrote:
Rank is rank, skill is skill. They don't seem to correspond at all times among practitioners of the Bujinkan and that may be what Soke had in mind.


Quote:

Papa-san wrote:
Yes, be serious about YOUR training, seek the best instruction you can find, put effort into it, BUT do not make it your life. Do not expect others to do as you do, they have their own goals which are just as valid for them as yours are for you. It is not the short burst of training at the beginning that develops you, it is the continuation of training throughout your life that will get you the real benefit. That is at least part of the message in "keep going".


… that look beyond talking about just your own individual dojo and training. I do the same so I’m no different.

Having given it a bit of though, looking beyond edicts how do we look at how soke actually feels about people – both from his point of view and culturally (as a Japanese person) discussing the Bujinkan on the internet. Do we look to scrape in on what is permissible or do we look beyond at taking it further to the point we know for sure there is no problem.

Is it ok to discuss the Bujinkan in general as long as we make clear that we are speaking from our own opinion or do we try to truly move to limiting ourselves to only discussing our own dojo and training – referring all bigger issues away? How big a cultural shift is this for most of us? A Japanese person, culturally, would avoid making the sorts of statements most of us do and would usually would require a greater effort to speak on an issue rather than a person from a western culture who requires restraint not to.

I don’t know but I am interested in others opinion.


Posted on: 2010/11/11 9:56
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Words From Sensei on the Internet
Village Old Timer
Joined:
2003/2/2 5:12
From Matsudo City, Chiba, Japan
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 661
Offline
Duncan wrote
Quote:
How big a cultural shift is this for most of us? A Japanese person, culturally, would avoid making the sorts of statements most of us do and would usually would require a greater effort to speak on an issue rather than a person from a western culture who requires restraint not to.


Most of the non-Japanese members of Bujinkan come from societies that have flat structures, whereas Japanese culture is vertical and hierarchical. Junior people in conservative institutions in Japan (education, business, traditional arts and practices) do not give their opinions unsolicited. They depend instead on received ideas from teachers, academics, managers, experts in their fields.

I'm not suggesting this is right, or the only way to do things. It's how, for the most part, people in Japan share or withold their opinions or dissent. And I'm not saying that Japanese people don't have opinions. My coworkers tell me what they think straight up when they think the audience is sympathetic.

Anyway, that's my 2 yen derived from nearly 8 years of living, training and working in Japan.

Posted on: 2010/11/11 14:54
_________________
"It's harder to be kind than clever."
- Jeff Bezos
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Words From Sensei on the Internet
Cant Stay Offline
Joined:
2003/8/1 23:57
From Hamina, Finland
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
師導士会 :: Shidoshikai
Posts: 1682
Offline
On the other hand, I remember advice that we should try to behave as is the norm in our own culture, not being "more Japanese than the Japanese", as I've heard sometimes being bluntly put

Fine line, as in most cases, I suppose.

Posted on: 2010/11/11 15:08
_________________
Ari Julku
Shidōshi
Bujinkan Ōari Dōjō
(Bujinkan Budōka since 1985)
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Words From Sensei on the Internet
Kutaki Postmaster
Joined:
2004/7/22 0:43
From DC, USA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 193
Offline
I don't think the statement needs too much analysis. I do think it is really easy to see when stupid people are having an argument, people are stupidly having an argument, people are having stupid arguments, or any combination. I don't think being western or Japanese matters here, its seems to me more about being human. What sensei said makes sense to me. I will do my best to be respectful and to not feed the trolls. This, so far, has been one of the few threads I've seen lately that doesn't contain those combinations of stupidity and argument. I hope it continues.

Posted on: 2010/11/12 7:25
_________________
-Steven Schmidt
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Words From Sensei on the Internet
Cant Stay Offline
Joined:
2003/8/1 23:57
From Hamina, Finland
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
師導士会 :: Shidoshikai
Posts: 1682
Offline
Yap, trolls are trolls, and fighting them should be left to the elves and whatnot

However, even speaking to people genuinely interested in this style of MA it might be difficult to stay on the "in my class" point, and make it so that the person really gets the point, that in other teachers classes things might well be something else.

If the question is "how do you in Bujinkan..." and we answer "well, in my class / I do it..." the person still more likely than not thinks it's Bujinkan you are talking about, not just oneself.

That's the fine line I'm seeing here.

But then again, it's always "in the receiving end" where the conclusions are made, no matter how we put it.

Posted on: 2010/11/12 22:56
_________________
Ari Julku
Shidōshi
Bujinkan Ōari Dōjō
(Bujinkan Budōka since 1985)
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Words From Sensei on the Internet
Village Old Timer
Joined:
2009/1/11 18:38
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
Posts: 615
Offline
Quote:

kouryuu wrote:
Hi Everyone,

Last Friday night at Hombu Dojo, Hatsumi made some comments at the opening of class about the use of references to the Bujinkan and Hombu on the Internet. He explicitly stated that we should not claim to speak for the Bujinkan or for Hombu Dojo online, and that "there are many stupid people getting into arguments about the Bujinkan on the Internet." Sensei said that if we discuss things, we should do so from the point of view of our own individual dojos and training.

The last part I can clearly see to be an issue with this type of website, as its a discussion forum medium. I would like to encourage those who use this site to keep this in mind. We have to be responsible for our own training and speak from our own personal experience, rather than framing things in a "the Bujinkan is this/that..." type of way. Rather than saying, "In the Bujinkan, we...", it would be better to say, "In my dojo / training, I..."

Please keep this in mind.

Thanks,
Shawn

(It remained unclear as to whether or not Sensei's remarks included things like putting up films of Hombu training on the Internet, the content of blogs of Japan residents, etc. A couple of us intended to ask Sensei about this after class, but there was a line-up of people with gifts and Sensei left pretty quickly after that. Hopefully this can be clarified in the near future to avoid confusion.)


Thanks for posting this Shawn. If we adhere to this it could provide for a more productive discussion board.

Keep us posted on any answers you might receive when you ask those questions.

Thanks again

Posted on: 2010/11/12 23:02
_________________
https://twitter.com/rjhartu
rjhartungiii.photoshelter.com


Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Words From Sensei on the Internet
Active Kutakian
Joined:
2003/2/28 15:19
From Boise, ID
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 108
Offline
If we quote Hatsumi when he is referring to our art, then would that be inappropriate?

Posted on: 2010/11/14 13:46
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: Words From Sensei on the Internet
Honorary Villager
Joined:
2010/8/20 12:20
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 27
Offline
Perhaps we should all just talk about 'our' art individually, from our own perspective/interpretation rather quoting anyone else at all? A lot of folks only quote the 'topdogs' to add credence to their side of a mudslinging contest rather than as a factual 'reference' point. Maybe that is the message from Soke? Stand on your own, using your own credentials/abilities, and don't drag anyone else into it regardless? Just my thoughts.

Posted on: 2010/11/15 6:49
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer



(1) 2 »




[Advanced Search]


Today's Sponsor