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Re: Bowing Ceremony?
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I urge you to learn about the various parts that make up this ritual. You should learn the significance behind the 2 claps, bow and 1 clap sequence. Know a basic idea of what the phrase means. Know who or what you are bowing to. There are lessons contained within each step that have life application, even without any of the Shinto/spiritual dogma. It will enrich your understanding of Japanese budo.


I would love to learn more about the bow in ceremony. I know some of the aspects of it, but probably not nearly enough. What resources would you recommend I use to study this?

Posted on: 2010/11/18 8:57
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Re: Bowing Ceremony?
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You might find this old thread useful in your research:

Click here

Others with more resources into the clapping, Shinto background, etc may have better links. My knowledge comes from kuden.

Posted on: 2010/11/18 13:19
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Re: Bowing Ceremony?
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YoruKage wrote:
Quote:

I urge you to learn about the various parts that make up this ritual. You should learn the significance behind the 2 claps, bow and 1 clap sequence. Know a basic idea of what the phrase means. Know who or what you are bowing to. There are lessons contained within each step that have life application, even without any of the Shinto/spiritual dogma. It will enrich your understanding of Japanese budo.


I would love to learn more about the bow in ceremony. I know some of the aspects of it, but probably not nearly enough. What resources would you recommend I use to study this?


I would start with getting a good teacher and go from there.

Posted on: 2010/11/19 11:55
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Re: Bowing Ceremony?
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that's obviously a big priority, but until I pay off hospital bills, find a job in my field and not manual labor barely above minimum wage, pay off student loans, and can generally provide a better life for my wife and kids than we have now, I can't afford to travel to a teacher or fly you (though I appreciate the offer you made in another thread, to come here if we paid the way) or another one in. I'd love to, that's the goal. Not happening though at the moment. I still want to learn what I can and continue training with what I already have learned (that's why I have a small training group, not that I'm teaching them, they are helping me stay fresh on what stuff I know and they pick up what they can in the process). If there is a source where I can learn about the ceremony, just for my knowledge and understanding. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Posted on: 2010/11/20 12:54
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Re: Bowing Ceremony?
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Yeah, sometimes it is hard, that's live.

But, who is the closest teacher to your location? Maybe try to work a plan of somesort with him.... that is unfortunately the only best way to go and learn.

Posted on: 2010/11/20 21:23
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Re: Bowing Ceremony?
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YoruKage wrote:
that's obviously a big priority, but until I pay off hospital bills, find a job in my field and not manual labor barely above minimum wage, pay off student loans, and can generally provide a better life for my wife and kids than we have now, I can't afford to travel to a teacher or fly you (though I appreciate the offer you made in another thread, to come here if we paid the way) or another one in. I'd love to, that's the goal. Not happening though at the moment. I still want to learn what I can and continue training with what I already have learned (that's why I have a small training group, not that I'm teaching them, they are helping me stay fresh on what stuff I know and they pick up what they can in the process). If there is a source where I can learn about the ceremony, just for my knowledge and understanding. Can anyone point me in the right direction?


I never heeded this advice personally, although I'm trying to do so now.

You "ought" to take care of all of the above before you seek out training. Your quality of life is more important than the breadth of knowledge you might receive.

Don't be like me a pursue things to exhaustion.
Returning home taught me that I had my priorities mixed up a bit. I pursued martial arts at the expense of my own health at time. I spent a time training so much that the hours I spent in a dojo exceeded the hours I had at my full time job at times. I also spent money on the martial arts which could have been saved or could have fed me a bit more.

The balancing of life just wasn't there while I was in Japan. Eating cup ramen or a couple of rice balls a day so I could train wasn't a healthy way to live.

I spent nearly 40 hours a week training in multiple martial arts that stressed myself out and made friends uneasy. I wasn't near to being a true martial artist, all I did was become a machine that was breaking down and needed repairing.

After I returned home I finally have time to have my muscles repair and my mind to relax. I still train everyday, but it isn't at any expense and not as formidable as the 30+ hours a week I did in Japan.

So, I spent four years in a state of happy suffering and came back to the states in a state of happy anticipation of the possibilities of a balanced and happy life.

The moral of the story, I was really close to self destruction while seeking the "way".

I think as a result I might have found the path, now that I am more balanced in life in my thinking.

Posted on: 2010/11/21 0:50
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Re: Bowing Ceremony?
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We really need a "like" button for experientially informed and reflective posts like that.

Posted on: 2010/11/21 2:37
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Re: Bowing Ceremony?
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Exactly. People train like they are in a race. But, in an art that has no end, no finish line, then why the hurry? Why sacrifice the most important things in life (family, health, job, etc) for something that cannot be measured with any tangible means?

I know people who have paid for Japan trips on credit, sold their vehicle, quit their jobs, etc all to pursue a passion of training. They are now paying heavily for their decisions. They have great taijutsu, sure, but their lives are nowhere, they have relationship problems, and depression issues. They even have gone through health problems. The results of their sacrifices did not make their lives complete and only ended up creating problems, big problems..

Budo training is supposed to enhance and protect the foundations of living. If you sacrifice too much for pursuit of budo, you will rot from the inside and lose the purpose and meaning of it all. You have to have a mature perspective about these things, which (in my opinion) is at the root of all budo.

It's taken me quite a long time to come to learn these things, having made similar mistakes and paid the consequences. Hindsight is always 20/20, right? But, the nice thing is that as long as you are still breathing and moving, you can achieve your goals while still having balance in your life, even if it takes you 10 years or more to get there. You just have to find the happiness in the balance, whatever form it takes. If that means training once a month or less, but keeping your life, family, employment, etc in balance, then great. If all you are taught are 3 techniques, train on them in the spaces of time you have, with patience and persistence, until life opens up the means for you to receive another lesson.

As long as you are moving forward in ALL areas of your life, then you will find there is a place for budo training.

Posted on: 2010/11/21 5:39
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I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, or in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. ~ Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Bowing Ceremony?
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Actually, Darren I disagree with you on several points.



I also wouldn't change anything, and I'm more than willing to do it all over again if I had to.

It was a happy suffering. Without that experience I doubt I would be where I am now or where I am going. I still advocate daily practice. I also still advocate the seeking.

I just had to go to the extremes to find where the middle was that's all. I was quite obsessive.

Perhaps this could be a topic to discuss elsewhere if someone wants to start one.

Posted on: 2010/11/21 6:42
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Re: Bowing Ceremony?
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Thank you, there was a time when I might have pursued a similar path, but I chose differently. I trained heavily and loved doing it, but when I moved to Idaho I couldn't get in with Mike Miraglia because he wasn't taking new students and despite my efforts to still meet with him in hopes he'd change his mind since I wasn't a new student to the art we never did have a meeting. I decided to focus on school and my new marriage at the time instead, deciding to pursue Budo Taijutsu again after finishing school. I finished school, so did my wife, but neither of us have found jobs in our fields. Two kids later and we still aren't working in our fields, but we are happy with our life. I decided it was time to pick up training again, but Mike seems to have dropped off the face of the planet and there aren't any other teachers within 12 hours of here. I still want to train and learn, so I formed this little group out of my garage. I've been contacted by some of Mike's old students who want to keep training. I'm not looking at this as "my" group. I just facilitate the place for us to train and we share knowledge and hopefully we are doing better than worse for it. I just wanted some info on what others thought about doing the bowing. One of my absolute favourite things about training in our art was the sense of brotherhood I felt everywhere I trained because of there not being competition. I am beginning to feel like an outsider now.

Posted on: 2010/11/21 6:54
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