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Re: New student requesting some information.
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Joshua, come to the BuFest next September in Springfield, IL, Jay and Beth often attend that too. You'll get a lot of expanded ideas there and have a great time training. Your questions are more readily answered in person then trying to describ them with words.

Posted on: 2013/12/16 10:07
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Ed Martin aka Papa-san
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Re: New student requesting some information.
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Quote:


Kframe wrote:

I was talking about this question on Martial talk and Mr Chris Parker felt that the way ichimonji was being taught, as I described it, was not inline with Gyokko ryus ideals.




Chris Parker is not in the Bujinkan and has not trained under a Japanese shihan. He uses the Martial Talk forum to promote his own and his teacher's limited and quite often incorrect knowledge of the Takamatsu-den.

This is just a friendly warning to be careful regarding the sources of the information you are inquiring about. Many people will not have your best interests at heart and are only concerned with promoting their own agenda.

Posted on: 2013/12/16 11:39
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Re: New student requesting some information.
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Papa San, I intend to attend that next year as well as any other events I can. I want to meet and train with the best.

I do apologize for my questioning of everything. My prior experience is hard to shake some times..

Im not to concerned with the historically correct version of a movement, only that it works. I think that both styles of Ichi monji have a place in my training.

I think that part of the process is to study the basics, like kamae. TO really know them. I want to really know this art and its basics. Nothing is fixed, there are variations of everything.. To know the basics and to understand them, will make me a good martial artist.

This is why I left mma training. It is a lack of breadth and depth. The stand up is so narrow, no one experiments with other ways of defending.(other then me, I practiced with a karate guy and stole some of his blocks and used them in sparring. LOL) Boxing hands up ear muffs are not suited to mma, they need to use more active deflections not covers and absorbtion.

So here I am, studying a art with tremendous depth.

Posted on: 2013/12/16 12:43
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Joshua Worman

New student at the Fort Wayne Zentai Bujjinkan Dojo
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Re: New student requesting some information.
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Kuma thank you for the warning. That is partially why I posted similar questions on other forums. I want as many answers as possible. I respect Chris Parker, and think he is a wealth of information. However he is not the only source. I want as many as I can get, so I can make my own mind and have my own answer..

Posted on: 2013/12/16 12:46
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Joshua Worman

New student at the Fort Wayne Zentai Bujjinkan Dojo
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Re: New student requesting some information.
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Hey I thought of another question.

I know we do a lot of weapons, I like the stick stuff a lot. The one that I feel has the most practical useage is Knife usage.

I read here that there is not specific school or kata for knife defense/offense. Yet many Bujinkan schools(mine included) advertise Knife(tantojutsu)work on there websites.

Is it more like they adapted other kata/techniques to use with knives? I would imagine that a lot of things change due to the small size of the knife ya?

Though I did see them doing some cool things with the Kunai the other day. Based it off some sword movements.

Posted on: 2013/12/16 14:08
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Joshua Worman

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Re: New student requesting some information.
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Quote:

Kframe wrote:

Kuma thank you for the warning. That is partially why I posted similar questions on other forums. I want as many answers as possible. I respect Chris Parker, and think he is a wealth of information. However he is not the only source. I want as many as I can get, so I can make my own mind and have my own answer..



Why do you respect Chris Parker? I just pointed out to you that he doesn’t practice Takamatsu-den and has no connection with a teacher in Japan. And as for his “wealth of information”: you might come to the conclusion that I was extremely knowledgeable as well…if I did what Chris does, which is have a stack of Karl Friday and Dave Lowry books sitting open next to my keyboard so that I can copy verbatim their contents whenever someone like yourself asks me a question. Believe me, if you saw Chris Parker attempt to manipulate a katana or a rokushaku bo, you might be less inclined to seek his expertise. But this thread isn’t about why people with big egos and poor movement get away with what they do on the internet, so I’ll stay on topic.

At the risk of repeating advice that you’ve already been given: do yourself a big favor and don’t worry about accumulating information. If you really want to learn Takamatsu-den, then you simply need to attend classes at your dojo and practice on your own as much as possible. I would suggest at some point finding a good teacher. For your purposes, I am equating “good teacher” with “someone who has established a substantial relationship with a teacher in Japan and frequents their dojo as much as possible”, in addition to being someone whom you feel you can relate to and connect with. The fashionable thinking in the Bujinkan seems to be to not do this, to instead flutter about from dojo to dojo attempting to learn from as many people as possible. Personally, I never understood this bizarre imperative, because it doesn’t work in any other form of apprenticeship or education. Whether it’s six people or sixty, you’re going to end up with six or sixty different opinions, perspectives, philosophies, and methodologies about anything. You’ll be confused and frustrated at the best of times, and ultimately your progress will be hamstrung every time you default to your own ideas of the best course of action to take, which is what will happen as a result of having too many cooks in the kitchen. One soke. One shihan. One teacher. That’s it. No more, no less.

But as this is ultimately just my opinion, you may take it or leave it. It may help to accept that knowledge without adequate training experience to contextualize it is fairly useless.

Good luck.

Posted on: 2013/12/16 20:38
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Re: New student requesting some information.
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I have a good teacher I think. He travels to japan every year to train, as well the taikai. He also travels and trains regularly with his instructor.

I was just curious about why they had a more weight forward ichimonji, when I see most videos of it, with rear foot back pointing away and weight rearward.

It seams, just from the feeling I get from moving in it that, they kinda came up with a generic ichimonji to use for all practice. Of course I am likely wrong and will only find out in time..

Just watching the Upper belts practice, when they are doing some technique they almost always assume a L shape with there Ichimonji. He said that the foot pointed back provided for a escape route.

I think With the feet in a more L shape instead, you get a more stable, posture, though you loose the escape route.



As for respecting Chris parker and his wealth of information. When it comes to knowledge of japense martial arts, the guy clearly knows a lot more then me. I don't know much about how he trains, other then he runs a INDIE school in Australia some where.

Posted on: 2013/12/17 10:14
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Joshua Worman

New student at the Fort Wayne Zentai Bujjinkan Dojo
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Re: New student requesting some information.
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Since I move every year I train with many teachers, absorb what I can and develop my own movement in accordance with my physiology and the opponent or scenario I am facing. I do not focus on the abstract details too much but rather let my body correct and adapt itself with repetitive and diverse training. Multiple teachers is not a bad thing, hesitation and over thinking details is when facing danger.

"Shut up and train!" To quote Soke himself.

Posted on: 2013/12/17 12:43
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Re: New student requesting some information.
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Quote:

NYorker wrote:
Since I move every year I train with many teachers, absorb what I can and develop my own movement in accordance with my physiology and the opponent or scenario I am facing. I do not focus on the abstract details too much but rather let my body correct and adapt itself with repetitive and diverse training. Multiple teachers is not a bad thing, hesitation and over thinking details is when facing danger.

"Shut up and train!" To quote Soke himself.



Diverse training with multiple teachers is most certainly a bad thing, at least in regards to Takamatsu-den. Just because you are incapable or unwilling to recognize it as such doesn’t make it any less so. What do you call this art you study on your own and/or with many teachers? Because it isn’t Takamatsu-den. Not by a long shot. Developing your own movement? Precisely the problem. You are doing what you want to do, not what generations of others have done before you in adherence to a particular way of moving: the way the soke moves. Moving in accordance with your own physiology? What does that mean? Without a teacher who is connected to Hatsumi-sensei, by what standard are you correcting yourself against? Who are these teachers you are learning from? What are their credentials?

If you are really comfortable with your choices, that’s cool. But you should refrain from foisting your peculiar philosophy on the young and impressionable, particularly when that philosophy is obviously a soft option.

I would agree that hesitation when facing danger can possibly lead to an undesirable outcome. But then so can shutting off your brain and making bad choices. In any case, it has nothing to do with the thread.

I also don’t understand why so many people love to quote “shut up and train”….while insisting on hanging out on discussion forums and running their mouths.

Posted on: 2013/12/17 16:53
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Re: New student requesting some information.
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"Diverse training with multiple teachers is most certainly a bad thing,"

No, it is not. I will agree that it is a good Idea to find one teacher to direct and guide your training, especially early on. There comes a time however when you need to have your eyes opened to the fact that there are very many ways to do things right.

You speak of training in a black and white fashion. Anyone who has spent significant time listening to Soke will know there are very many shades of grey in training.

Certain teachers agree with your philosophy of only one way to do things. Manaka sensei and Tanamura both have built arts based on this. Splinter factions often cling to dogma as a method of showing how they are different from everyone else - therefore a "pure source" or the only "right way". This is called being a zealot. There are advantages to this kind of thinking early on, but it is not the way of the world.

To Kframe, Relax. There is a lifetime of learning in this art. Follow your teacher and be patient. Know who they train with in Japan and learn their method. When you are ready, you will see something else that allows you to expand you martial mind. Taikai's have been a great way of showing the diversity of training. (Those who are good and those who suck). This is not an art that you complete or graduate from. Remember, at your black belt you are ready to begin to start to learn the art.

Marty

Posted on: 2013/12/18 0:52
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