Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Socialize
 

Recent Topics

Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users





ATTACKS IN TAJ JIUTSU
Honorary Villager
Joined:
2014/1/8 18:55
From ITALY
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 31
Offline
Hi to everyone, after the interest that a my previous post aroused. I decided deepen some arguments reguard tha attack in Taj jiutsu. I am a beginner in bujinkan, but I have got experience in other martial arts. WICH
Shotokan Karatè
Wing chun
Mma etcetc
I want clarify some points, maybe confronted on previous posts.
Traditionally in the taj jiutsu there are the famous HO KEN JU ROPPO
1. Fudo / Kongo immovable clenched fist
2. Gyokaku cow horn three-finger claw
3. Happa eight leaves open hand cup
4. Kikaku / Zatsuki demon horn head front / back / side
5. Kiten wake up rolling open hand edge
6. Koppo / Koken bone way thumb knuckle
7. Shako shrimp open hand claw
8. Shikan extend knuckle extended fist
9. Shishin / Hosen bee sting little finger stab
10. Shito / Boshi finger sword thumb slice or jab
11. Shizen natural teeth / nails / toe nails
12. Shuki waking up arm elbow
13. Sokki waking up leg knee
14. Sokugyaku foot dance (rev) toes stabbing
15. Sokuyaku foot dance sole / ball of foot
16. Taiken body weapon
Now my question is:
1-Many of this arms’ techniches use the step like Fudoken, many similar to Karatè’ s oizuki
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBc8wkfJEao
The problem is, in a real street fight you cannot use fudoken, o Shahoken in a long distance, all is more closer, I mean the distance.
When you talk about Taj jiutsu it’s easy hear the sentences
1-ONE STRIKE ONE VICTORY
2- THE SLOWNESS IS OUR FORCE
3-TAI JIUTSU IS BASED OF NATURAL MOVEMENT OF HUMAN BODY
Regard first two point, I think that there are situations where one strike is not sufficient for break down your opponent and situation where your punch must be fast. Third point, what do you mean with natural movement? A kick, a jab, I think that is natural for me, it’s not natural for you, for example for me is a natural thing use all kind of kicks, because I trained for long time to use it, my legs are flexibile my feet are like my hand if somebody say me DON’T USE THE KICKS BECAUSE THIS NOT TAJ JIUTSU, I would fell limited, because for me is normal use kicks, like can be natural use in a real street fighting, a slap etc. One day a shihan told me that in Ta ji jiutsu there is not limited, all is good if it is natural for you, but if on the KOTO AND GYOKKO RYU SCROLLS there are not JAB, CROSS, SLAP moreover my taj jiutsu is not correct.
Can I do boxe and include it in my Taj jiutsu, o am I limited in that wrote on the scrools?
Can fudoken became a jab?
Can my elbow strike to be, like Muay thay in this moment and like Karatè tomorrow because situation is different, and to be a CORRECT TAJ JIUTSU? For example also the boxe use body weight, you see falling step.
Other question THE ATTACK TIME, in kihon kappo for example you attack after a defense, but if I want anticipate my opponent? How do you study attack time? Greetings.

Posted on: 2014/2/6 4:15
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: ATTACKS IN TAJ JIUTSU
Village Old Timer
Joined:
2004/12/21 19:52
From Dayton, Ohio
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 884
Offline
Shu-Ha-Ri has been mentioned many times on these threads. At the same time it is often said that in our art you move in ways that are natural for you, thus the art becomes your own.

Without a doubt these are both true but what seems to be lost is the understanding that this takes time. You have to spend a lot of time learning to move yourself in ways that do not feel natural to you, doing things that when you currently do them are less than effective - and not fund or exciting to do. Only by spending many years in the Shu can you begin to see the Ha. There are precious few who are in the Ri.

I am firmly learning in the Shu. It is a natural consequence of being a westerner that I play far to much thinking it is exploring the Ha. How much am I really learning if I have not truely learned the Shu?!

We watch Hatsumi moving freely in the Ri and when we train in Japan we try to capture some of the movement to get an idea of what we thought we saw. Soke States he teaches to the 10th dans but so many times it seems like he is showing things only to 1 or 2 people (in classes filled with 15th dans). The very act of trying to repeat his movement is self defeating as we are not him, not at his level and almost always miss his point. But with enough visits and enough watching him we can start to see pieces of the puzzle.

In the same way - practicing unnatural movements that "don't work for my body" over and over can sometimes make the movement become more natural and cause our Body to appear to change styles.

However, we cannot wait to get to the next stage, understand things immediately, have every movement "seem natural" to us and we seek the quick answer and easy fix. When it doesn't come quickly, people loose patience and look elsewhere. Thus we know many people who have "lots of Martial arts training" in many arts. Masters of none.

My whole point is to find a teacher with close connection to the source in Japan. Train Diligently and plan to be in the Shu for many years. When you find the urge for quicker answers look around but be sure to understand it will likely be a fruitless search if you are not ready.

Looking for answers from unknown idiots like me is 99.99% a waste of time. So often the .01% of true pearls gets lost in the noise.

To speak to the post...Yes all of your taijutsu can be use in all movements when it is appropriate and you have practiced the basics many years. I have heard the scrolls are written vaguely to allow more variety and are not intended to limit movement.

Marty

Posted on: 2014/2/6 5:17
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: ATTACKS IN TAJ JIUTSU
Active Kutakian
Joined:
2003/2/28 15:19
From Boise, ID
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 108
Offline
Giuseppe, I've seen several of your posts on this forum and they have a similar them. You are asking questions as if you are an expert in martial arts. Having study a lot of martial arts and been in lots of fights does not make someone an expert. You are asking questions about bringing in techniques learned in other martial arts to essentially fill in the gaps where you see there are gaps, but you haven't trained in the Bujinkan long enough to know really where gaps may or may not lie. Like Marty said, you will need to spend a lot of time training in just the very basic techniques in the Bujinkan before you can move on from there. I had the same issue, I also came from a background of studying a lot of other martial arts and getting in lots of fights and sparring matches. I thought I was hot stuff and when I started Bujinkan I thought I had the answers and thought that my previous training would give me an edge in the Bujinkan. Boy was I wrong. You say that Fudo Ken is too slow and long, that is because you are studying it at a basic, beginning student level. Maybe someday you'll understand the true nature of the Fudo Ken and it's practical use in a real fight. Given your knowledge and temperament at this point, it is a good thing you haven't achieved that knowledge because you would seriously hurt someone if you knew how to use it. After doing the basics for a long time, you will finally come to understand their true nature as I did after years of training and giving up my ego. Good luck, and keep training. Spend more time training and less time asking questions. The answers come from the physical training. In Japan it is kind of discouraged to ask many questions because you need to spend the time training. When someone asks a question about what was just shown, you can see the annoyance on the faces of the teachers. I like the motto: shut up and train.

Posted on: 2014/2/6 5:32
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: ATTACKS IN TAJ JIUTSU
Active Kutakian
Joined:
2004/1/11 8:45
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 131
Offline
Quote:

Giuseppe wrote:
Can fudoken became a jab?



that is pretty stupid. you have been skimming, not comprehending. FUDOKEN IS A JAB. its also a cross, a hook, a hammerfist and an uppercut.

thats because FUDOKEN IS A FIST CONFIGURATION. same with shuto ken (a sword hand aka "judo/karate chop)

Quote:

Giuseppe wrote:
Third point, what do you mean with natural movement? A kick, a jab, I think that is natural for me, it’s not natural for you, for example for me is a natural thing use all kind of kicks, because I trained for long time to use it, my legs are flexibile my feet are like my hand if somebody say me DON’T USE THE KICKS BECAUSE THIS NOT TAJ JIUTSU, I would fell limited, because for me is normal use kicks, like can be natural use in a real street fighting, a slap etc. One day a shihan told me that in Ta ji jiutsu there is not limited, all is good if it is natural for you, but if on the KOTO AND GYOKKO RYU SCROLLS there are not JAB, CROSS, SLAP moreover my taj jiutsu is not correct.


simple: natural movement is, to use an bodybuilding term, a compound movement, not an isolation (bicep curls). more importantly: it is context dependent. if all are wearing armor and you roundhouse kicked them all in the head, that's not natural. same with fighting on an unstable platform(ex. a boat). try doing an ali shuffle onboard a rocking boat before punching your opponent. it's optimizing your body's functionality for the desired effect.

that's why would you jab-cross a samurai who has a katana? what is the context you are training for? what is the context of gyokko ryu? if you don't know that, it's a big problem for your own training.

Posted on: 2014/2/6 6:29
_________________
Griff Lockfield

"Don't ask me. I need time to practice rather than answering to it." - Harada Masanori

just playing the ONI's advocate!
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: ATTACKS IN TAJ JIUTSU
Honorary Villager
Joined:
2014/1/8 18:55
From ITALY
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 31
Offline
Above all thank you,

YOURU KAGE WROTE
Given your knowledge and temperament at this point, it is a good thing you haven't achieved that knowledge because you would seriously hurt someone if you knew how to use it.

Where do you live, I live in a small town where the violence, is a normal thing, there are many bad people ready kill to you, use o don't use a technique can make the difference between LIVE OR DIE.Grretings.

Posted on: 2014/2/6 16:31
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: ATTACKS IN TAJ JIUTSU
Villager
Joined:
2009/1/19 23:39
From Germany
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 71
Offline
It's true that technique can make a difference between life and death,
but the difference should be made up by good basics
and this does require patience and some or better many years of training and even then it's much better to avoid any kind of violent situation.
The first rule in in the dojo of Takamatsu's teacher was patience,
this should be valid for us as well....
and this applies for several levels in the training...
Have you already found a dojo?
If you don't tell us where you are we cannot help you find one

Posted on: 2014/2/6 19:08
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer







[Advanced Search]


Today's Sponsor