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Takamatsu Sensei, WWII, Nakano School, and Imperial Ninja
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Greetings.

I have a few questions that I am hoping that either some of you will be able to answer, or if you happen to be in Japan, would be kind enough to ask Hatsumi sensei.

I have read somewhere that Takamatsu sensei and his Grandfather were co-teaching, at some point, in an official capacity for the Japanese government. Seeing that it would seem reasonable that Toda sensei must have passed away well before WWII, it makes the most since to think that these two men must have been teaching together in the earliest years of the 20th century. On the same note, I remember reading that Toda sensei and Takamatsu sensei also jointly authored a book or manual on military training. If anyone could clarify this subject for me, it would be much appreciated.

Somewhere in my sub-conscious, I recall being told that Toda and Takamatsu patriotically did their best to train Japanese Imperial Forces at one of the military schools, but were replaced after a period of time due to their “enthusiasm”. This too makes since, but it is very hard to believe that anyone could be too rough or too tough to be a Japanese Imperial Army trainer. Again, I would love to learn more about this.

During the WWII era, Takamatsu sensei would have been of a prime age to make major contributions to the war effort. His knowledge of the people, language, and the geography of Manchuria, Mongolia, and China would have been superb when compared with that of people who had never been to these places. Alas, Takamatsu sensei was supposed to have had hearing and vision problems that were the result of injuries and precluded him from being able to pass a standard, military physical exam. My next questions are, how did Takamatsu sensei spend the WWII era, and what, if any role, did he have in the war effort?

I am aware of the old Imperial Army intelligence training school that was located in Nakano. It is often referred to as the “Nakano Spy School”. If this school is known to exist, it is quite possible that other similar schools existed as well. I have a feeling that proper Ninjutsu is still very much a secret. It is simply hard to believe that the Imperial administration of Japan would not maintain a still-secret ninjutsu capability. In a nation that cloaks their beloved geisha, sumo, and kabuki in secrecy, it is easy to draw the conclusion that when the subject involves secrets themselves, that Japanese tradition is very thorough. My last questions for now are, is this premise at all valid?

Is it possible that someone ceremoniously maintains the traditional collection of historical nunjutsu for the Imperial household; in the same way as Japan, itself, honors and upholds the emperor?

Sincerely,

Vern Jeffery,
Sheng Leung,
Rising Dragon

Posted on: 2005/12/8 1:20
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Re: Takamatsu Sensei, WWII, Nakano School, and Imperial Ninja
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Quote:

ShengLeung wrote:

It is simply hard to believe that the Imperial administration of Japan would not maintain a still-secret ninjutsu capability. In a nation that cloaks their beloved geisha, sumo, and kabuki in secrecy, it is easy to draw the conclusion that when the subject involves secrets themselves, that Japanese tradition is very thorough. My last questions for now are, is this premise at all valid?




Your thought process is heading in the right direction; that might be very true. But who knows? Also, consider that this is a public forum. If you were a Shidoshi, perhaps a Shihan close to Hatsumi could answer your question in the Shidoshi-exclusive forum. The secrecy of and lack of knowledge about many aspects of ninjutsu are necessary to its survival, even in the modern day.

Sorry I can't give you any help. Someday, hopefully, we'll both be able to answer these sorts of questions easily and in detail ^_^.


- Manny S.

Posted on: 2005/12/8 3:07
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Re: Takamatsu Sensei, WWII, Nakano School, and Imperial Ninja
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Sumo is veiled in secrecy here in Japan? Wow, someone should tell that to the japanese here. Sumo aside, I don't think you are going to get a reply that you can use to these kinds of questions. For one, nobody, Soke aside, knows anything much about Takamatsu and none of us who are living here in Japan would ask him these kinds of questions. Sorry to disappoint.

Posted on: 2005/12/8 7:23
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Re: Takamatsu Sensei, WWII, Nakano School, and Imperial Ninja
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Hello,

I've been studying alot of stuff about this. I guessed I was the only masochist on that...

My very few adds to that topic are as follows:

- the info you are asking for is (IIRC) part of the Isshi Soden transmission (this means that Hatsumi Sensei will pass it on to very, very few persons - maybe just to the next Soke).

- other -kans (not the usual ones) claim to have info on this subject, but the stuff has been proven as completely wrong (even just for the dates involved).

- Hatsumi Sensei stated publicly a couple of things, among them: there are info he cannot disclose because they could harm people still in life; the role of Takamatsu in Manchuria/China can be understood by the fact that he was in relation with Colonel Akashi (from "Ninja Submission").

I think that, beside speculations and conjectures, we cannot go any further on this fascinating theme, beside these considerations.

Take care,

Paolo

Posted on: 2005/12/8 8:52
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Re: Takamatsu Sensei, WWII, Nakano School, and Imperial Ninja
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Thank you all for your responses.
Thank you especially for giving me the Colonel Motojiro Akashi lead.

I must ask, why are these not the types of questions that someone would ask Hatsumi sensei?

Also, I am not familiar with the term (IIRC), Would you please elaborate on the Isshi Soden transmission?

I have been doing extensive research on this subject for many years now. This forum seems like a place to get some answers that I have missed along the way.

I realize that it is somewhat dangerous to ask questions about the possible existence of other ninjutsu traditions that are keeping to oaths of secrecy. Yet, the possibility is definitely there. I am not talking about the string of frauds that are of course out there; I am talking about the possibility that something real has remained out of the light.

Oh, by the way- Sumo is steeped in secrecy and esoteric tradition.

Best regards,

Vern Jeffery,
Sheng Leung,
Rising Dragon

Posted on: 2005/12/8 9:42
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Re: Takamatsu Sensei, WWII, Nakano School, and Imperial Ninja
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Hello,

Besides Japanese behavioral etiquette (of which I have no clue), I think these questions are not appropriate just because Hatsumi Sensei already said there are facts about the life of Takamatsu Sensei that cannot be explained now (and maybe - I argue - never).

IIRC means "if I recall correctly" (or something like that ).

Concerning Isshi Soden, I'm not the most entitled to do that, but I would reveal a sneaky ninja tick: the use of Google and any other search-related web engine...!

Go read this interesting article: http://www.koryubooks.com/library/mskoss4.html.

Concerning other possible Ninjutsu Ryuha still living... My knowledge is very weak on this, but I saw there is someone out that claims to have found ninja densho belonging to his family. In some cases they are authentic, but in these cases also the person declares he is not a Soke, just simply a researcher, and there is a *HUGE* difference. Shortly a book will be published in English by an extra-Kan person on this subject.

Concerning Akashi, he was involved in so many things it seems impossible to find a direct connection without the elements only Hatsumi Sensei knows. In other words, be warned that this could be even more misleading than before knowing it...!

Concerning Nakano, it's nice and romantic to know that someone who studied old documents and ninja-like techniques and strategies in Nakano came out (after the school closure) proclaiming himself Soke of some Ryuha...

If you like the subject of Nakano and military history, give a try to the best book in English, written by Stephen Mercado (but "ninja" is cited only 2 times).

Happy reading.

P.

Posted on: 2005/12/8 10:23
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Re: Takamatsu Sensei, WWII, Nakano School, and Imperial Ninja
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I agree Paolo, Dr. Hatsumi has said that Takamatsu's memoirs would never be published as they could cause "international incidents". Keep in mind that he lived during the WWII era and there was a vast difference in Japanese policy at that time from what it is now. To accurately judge that one would have needed to live during that time, the old "walk a mile in his moccasins" idea. That for most of us is an impossiblity. Remember that Dr. Hatsumi honors his teacher and we honor Dr. Hatsumi. It maybe is far better to let the whole thing go, some people would believe that they are working it out in the "other dimension" now ------ but that too can not be proved one way or the other.
Ed Martin aka Papa-san

Posted on: 2005/12/8 21:59
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Re: Takamatsu Sensei, WWII, Nakano School, and Imperial Ninja
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Quote:

paolo_italy wrote:
- Hatsumi Sensei stated publicly a couple of things, among them: there are info he cannot disclose because they could harm people still in life; the role of Takamatsu in Manchuria/China can be understood by the fact that he was in relation with Colonel Akashi (from "Ninja Submission").


"Ninja Submission" does not mention about relation between Takamatsu sensei and Colonel Akashi. It only says that Takamatsu sensei's action seemed to be Colonel Akashi's work in those days.

Posted on: 2005/12/8 22:50
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Re: Takamatsu Sensei, WWII, Nakano School, and Imperial Ninja
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Good Morning,

Again, thank you all for your replies.

I agree that it is not exactly proper etiquette to ask one’s teacher questions that, in actuality, invite them to recall old memories of someone that they love and miss.

I also welcome the suggestion from Mr. Martin, that maybe we should just let the details go and enjoy where we are and what we have now.

I have always found this to be a very interesting puzzle to investigate.

For example, I find this interesting:

From my research I have concluded that Takamatsu Sensei’s associate, Lord Ren, was in fact Marshal Chang Tso Lin (Zhang Zuolin), aka, “The Tiger of Manchuria”, aka, “The Mukden Tiger”. He lived from 1873-1928. On July 4, 1928 the train that he was riding on was attacked and dynamited by then unknown forces. The warlord died of related injuries on June 21, 1928. This paved the way for his son, a known drug addict, to inherit his father’s domain. These events substantially enhanced the Japanese position in northern China and Manchuria and set the stage for further expansion. It has been strongly speculated that the assassination of Chang Tso Lin was the work of Japanese commandos under the command of Colonel Daisaku Komoto, with assistance from Colonel Hagaki Seishiro, and LTC Kanji Ishiwari.

I have also read that Washington, London, and Wall Street were aware, before the assassination, that a “Change-of-Command” in the region was imminent.

By following the events of history such as this, it is possible for those who are interested to gain further insight into how ninjutsu-specific elements of politics and strategy have shaped the past and could very well surface wearing different clothes in the future.

Best regards,
Vern Jeffery,
Sheng Leung,
Rising Dragon

Posted on: 2005/12/9 0:34
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Hello Harada Shihan,

Thank you for the specification. The Spanish translation of "Ninja Submission" states at page 28: "Solo podemos deducir el rol de Takamatsu Sensei relacionàndola con este coronel". The translation is: "We can deduce the role of Takamatsu Sensei by relating it to this colonel".

Take care,

Paolo

Posted on: 2005/12/9 4:35
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