Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
Socialize
 


Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users



(1) 2 3 4 ... 8 »


The Chemestry of Ninjutsu
Honorary Villager
Joined:
2009/10/4 6:04
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 31
Offline
So I am taking an environmental science class, and an astronomy class where we are talking a lot about energy and chemistry. Everything I learned seemed to fit pretty well with the ninjutsu system.

For example...

Carbon, Nitrogen, Hydrogen, and Oxygen are the most abundant elements in our environment, and are considered the fundamental elements in modern science.

In Ninjutsu there are 5 fundamental elements, 4 of which share a direct connection to the most abundant elements that we recognize in modern science.

Earth ---> Carbon
Water---> Hydrogen
Wind---> Oxygen
Fire---> Nitrogen

Even today, the fundamental elements of Ninjutsu, and the idea behind those elements, can been seen within Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, and Nitrogen.

Some more examples...

Carbon makes up the majority of the human body, and in ninjutsu is thought to be the element of the spirit (when thought of as earth). Thus body is spirit.

Hydrogen is abundant in H20, which we know as water. Fluidity etc.

Wind is the physical manifestation of Oxygen.

Nitrogen makes up 78% of the earths atmosphere, and is not solluable in water. Fire/Water conflict with each other. Also Lightning provides the intense energy needed to combine atmospheric nitrogen and oxygen into nitrates



We may not be living the ninja way non-stop like the clans of old did, but we do have the benefit of having more modern knowledge of the elements and the universe we live in. I think every practitioner of this art should take the time to research these elements and try to get a better understanding of them, because as we all know nature is the most important thing to us as animals on this earth.


Thanks for reading!

Posted on: 2009/10/4 6:52
_________________
Chi – Earth Sui – Water Ka - Fire Fu - Wind Ku Void
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: The Chemestry of Ninjutsu
Just Passing Through
Joined:
2007/12/11 17:48
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 1
Offline
I think that if you delving into spiritual or philosophical aspects of the elements, restricting 'earth' to carbon would be an error.

Water contains oxygen aswell. Hydrogen by itself is not water, nor does it have the same qualities and characteristics of water. Only H2O is water. How will you deal with the relation ship between the 'new elements' of hydrogen and oxygen being bonded to create the old element of water, when if they were not sharing electrons they would explode on contact?

Air just happens to contain oxygen which is vital to our every breath, but the presence of oxygen does not define the difference between air and wind.

I don't mean to shoot you down, I just feel that the elements are perfectly represented by themselves without the need to reference a periodic table, and that it would be a mistake to try and 'remake' them.

Posted on: 2009/10/4 10:08
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: The Chemestry of Ninjutsu
Cant Stay Offline
Joined:
2003/6/13 23:29
From Pennsylvania, USA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
師導士会 :: Shidoshikai
Posts: 1834
Offline
Whatever helps you to understand, use it. As you go on in your training your understanding probably will change.

Posted on: 2009/10/4 10:17
_________________
Ed Martin aka Papa-san
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: The Chemestry of Ninjutsu
Honorary Villager
Joined:
2009/10/4 6:04
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 31
Offline
Well I dont want it to be misunderstood that I am trying to redefine the elements. I am simply trying to point out some interesting parallels between the four elements of earth, water, fire, and wind to the four most abundant elements recognized by scientists.

I think its useful to study the elements of the periodic table, because many of those elements have interesting parallels to the 5 elements referenced in ninjutsu. I am just pointing out some of those parallels, because I think fire is much more than just a word :)

Quote:

We may not be living the ninja way non-stop like the clans of old did,.


id like to rephrase and say that we may not be training as intensely as the clans of old, which doesn't neccesarily mean we cant live the ninja way on a continuous basis.

Posted on: 2009/10/4 10:24
_________________
Chi – Earth Sui – Water Ka - Fire Fu - Wind Ku Void
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: The Chemestry of Ninjutsu
Village Old Timer
Joined:
2009/1/11 18:38
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
Posts: 615
Offline
The elements and your description is not very useful.

Wind is not based on Oxygen at all, it is based on thermodynamic properties of gases acting in concert.

Low and high pressure systems easily explain winds on a local scale, what about the winds on Jupiter which has little oxygen.

Water isn't hydrogen, water just is H20: two parts hydrogen and one part Oxygen. You can't have water without both in the proper proportions.

Earth is or soil is made up of many heavy elements other than carbon as well.

And for fire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire

The whole Elemental system is out dated as a metaphysical model of the universe, and isn't useful beyond what they are meant to represent, which I think are mere names for techniques,

Any special focus on them as something more meaningful will probably do more harm than good.

Posted on: 2009/10/4 15:25
_________________
https://twitter.com/rjhartu
rjhartungiii.photoshelter.com


Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: The Chemestry of Ninjutsu
Permanent Village Fixture
Joined:
2003/8/2 2:44
From No. Cal., USA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 358
Offline
Quote:

RJHIII wrote:
The elements and your description is not very useful.


The whole Elemental system is out dated as a metaphysical model of the universe, and isn't useful beyond what they are meant to represent, which I think are mere names for techniques,


Mr. Hartung,
I agree that trying to make a crummy chemistry analogy is probably not very productive for the yamabushi's personal training.

But still...I don't think I'd be so quick to write off a model of the universe that lasted as long as the theory of 5 or 6 elements. Feel free to school me.

Posted on: 2009/10/4 16:05
_________________
Pete Lohstroh
A man who wears fur shouldn't spit on a man who wears suede.
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: The Chemestry of Ninjutsu
Village Old Timer
Joined:
2009/1/11 18:38
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
Posts: 615
Offline
If you can find something in them then great. But, as a model for the universe it is worthless. In science completely useless, in philosophy (modern) completely useless, in history of philosophy it's useful in some respects as the study of thoughts.

However, the length of time a certain belief has been around doesn't make it remotely useful.

A lot of beliefs have been around for a long time that are false and useless.

Posted on: 2009/10/4 17:40
_________________
https://twitter.com/rjhartu
rjhartungiii.photoshelter.com


Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: The Chemestry of Ninjutsu
Honorary Villager
Joined:
2009/10/4 6:04
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 31
Offline
I think that discussion of how all elements play into the picture is useful.Again I am not trying to call Hydrogen water, or Carbon earth. I am just trying to show how they have connections to each other, and hopefully spark some interesting discussion :)

RJH - I think that the 5 elements in ninjutsu are far more than simply words for techniques like you seem to suggest.

Posted on: 2009/10/5 10:27
_________________
Chi – Earth Sui – Water Ka - Fire Fu - Wind Ku Void
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: The Chemestry of Ninjutsu
Permanent Village Fixture
Joined:
2003/8/2 2:44
From No. Cal., USA
Group:
村民 :: Villager
Posts: 358
Offline
Quote:

RJHIII wrote:
If you can find something in them then great. But, as a model for the universe it is worthless. In science completely useless, in philosophy (modern) completely useless, in history of philosophy it's useful in some respects as the study of thoughts.

However, the length of time a certain belief has been around doesn't make it remotely useful.

A lot of beliefs have been around for a long time that are false and useless.


Consistent response, thank you. I'm curious, what exactly is your scientific background?

Posted on: 2009/10/5 16:10
_________________
Pete Lohstroh
A man who wears fur shouldn't spit on a man who wears suede.
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: The Chemestry of Ninjutsu
Village Old Timer
Joined:
2009/1/11 18:38
Group:
村民 :: Villager
議長 :: Mod
Posts: 615
Offline
I suppose, but can you offer any proof that the 5 elements actually relate to Ninjutsu or the Bujinkan at all beyond the names of certain techniques.

I personally don't see any merit in it, but I also don't see any merit in the easter bunny either.

Posted on: 2009/10/5 16:12
_________________
https://twitter.com/rjhartu
rjhartungiii.photoshelter.com


Transfer the post to other applications Transfer



(1) 2 3 4 ... 8 »




[Advanced Search]


Today's Sponsor