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Waza, Kata and Technique
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Hi all,
I was wondering what the difference between a waza, kata and technique are?
I also want to know what is a good way to train these on my own, I also wondered if there is a site that list some of the basic techniques or would it be worthwhile for me to buy the Ten Chi Jin book.
The only Ten Chi Jin book that I could find is the one that is written by Richard Van Donk is this book good to get?

Posted on: 2011/7/28 2:22
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Re: Waza, Kata and Technique
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Others here who speak and know Japanese better than me can probably provide better answers...
"Waza" are structured forms of movement, that in the English speaking West we often describe as "techniques". I.E. "kihon no waza" - basic techniques, "omote gyaku no waza" - outside wrist throw technique.
"Kata' are longer forms of movement, typically part of the transmission of knowledge of a particular school/tradition. I.E. "Koku no kata" from Gyokku ryu kosshijutsu. They can be a vehicle for "waza", but they are so much more as well!

I wouldn't recommend that book unless your instructor advises it to you. Your own notes would be much more valuable to you. ***You can't learn BBT from books!*** Books and videos are really just REMINDERS to help you recall something you have learned previously, or perhaps to help you look at a different aspect of something that you already have some understanding of. Think of a connect-the-dots picture. The photos in a book are just the dots - a good instructor helps you draw the line to connect the dots and BBT is the picture you get at the end.

YMMV
Chris

Posted on: 2011/7/28 4:32
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Christopher Taylor
Bujinkan Taka-Seigi Dojo Abbotsford (BC) Canada
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Re: Waza, Kata and Technique
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You need a qualified teacher, period.

Kata, waza, etc are just terms you can find anywhere to get their definitions, none of which matter in developing any real level of taijutsu skills. As far as learning Bujinkan arts, they are entirely hands on.

It's just my opinion, but you won't learn any kata, waza, whatever, correctly on your own, whether you get it from video, website, book, or whatever. You need a qualified teacher. In fact, more than likely, you'll unknowingly develop bad habits that will take 10x longer to get rid of when you finally get the chance to train with a qualified teacher. In the long run, you'd be better off having never trained in any Bujinkan arts on your own and going at it fresh when you get to a teacher.

Your best bet is to find a Bujinkan teacher. If that's not feasible, then join a different martial art and learn directly from that teacher.

Bottom line: real, quality martial arts are a "person to person" thing to learn - no exceptions or short cuts.

I wish you the best of luck on your journey.

Posted on: 2011/7/28 4:38
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Darren Dumas

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, or in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. ~ Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Waza, Kata and Technique
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Quote:

Darren wrote:
Your best bet is to find a Bujinkan teacher. If that's not feasible, then join a different martial art and learn directly from that teacher.
Bottom line: real, quality martial arts are a "person to person" thing to learn - no exceptions or short cuts.


Going by his other posts he does seem to be training with someone but if he is living in Wingham NSW I take it that he is making a four or five hour trip to get to the nearest dojo.

Who are you training with at the moment Joshua?

I assume by his question he means that he can only occasionally get to training and wants a guide to practicing the basic kata / waza on his own to suppliment?

If that is the case my advice is to practice the simplest basics – kamae, ukemi, punching, kicking, sword cuts, etc. Go for quality rather than quantity. Also going by your other posts you already have a good library of books, don’t worry about buying the Ten Chi Jin as it’s just a reference guide for shidoshi …. It doesn’t give you instruction on how to do the basics it describes.


Posted on: 2011/7/28 10:40
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Re: Waza, Kata and Technique
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Thanks for your replies. I do have an instructor and I go to class once a week, I am just trying to find some waza to do myself and I also need to have a reference to help me remember the names.
The books that are written by Hatsumi Soke are hard to find the names and I wanted to know if there are other books that will help like Richard Van Donk?
I have my first grading in 8 weeks so I need to find something to help me add to my notes.

Posted on: 2011/7/28 17:53
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Re: Waza, Kata and Technique
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For self-training, you might consider focusing more on conditioning than actually practicing waza, kata or techniques. As much as possible, try to make sure that your conditioning reflects what you're doing in the dojo. Try asking your instructor about San Shin kata. You can easily turn that into a good workout simply by doing lots of repetitions. Ukemi is another area where you can work on techniques (extremely important ones) and condition yourself at the same time.

Beyond that, instead of looking for books, try 'writing your own'. Take notes on what you're learning in class. Talk to your instructor or a senior student after class to help put names to techniques. After a while you'll start to build up a vocabulary of techniques (waza), strategies and kata, and while these will be difficult to really practice on your own, you can read them over and work them out in your mind in your spare time. This will really help you prepare for and get the most out of each class.

That said, get any books that look attractive to you and give them a read. Just don't let them be the focus of your training. What goes on in the dojo is most important.

Good Luck and Happy Training!

-Kent

Posted on: 2011/7/29 0:27
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Re: Waza, Kata and Technique
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Quote:

Zenigata wrote:
Going by his other posts he does seem to be training with someone but if he is living in Wingham NSW I take it that he is making a four or five hour trip to get to the nearest dojo.

Who are you training with at the moment Joshua?

I assume by his question he means that he can only occasionally get to training and wants a guide to practicing the basic kata / waza on his own to suppliment?

If that is the case my advice is to practice the simplest basics – kamae, ukemi, punching, kicking, sword cuts, etc. Go for quality rather than quantity. Also going by your other posts you already have a good library of books, don’t worry about buying the Ten Chi Jin as it’s just a reference guide for shidoshi …. It doesn’t give you instruction on how to do the basics it describes.



This is really good advice. I'm sorry if I sounded a little curt, as it wasn't my intention. It becomes very difficult to give advice on what one needs to work on, what to study, what is better, etc, as this can step on the toes of whoever the teacher is. Listings of names/techniques are all over the net, so it's not hard to find. I recommend what others have said - create your own list and take notes of key features of each. You'll remember them far easier that way. You may also find simple sketches and diagrams you make will give you a visual aid in learning (I'm a visual learner).

As you are going for your first rank, likely your shidoshi isn't requiring you to memorize a huge list of Japanese terms/names. I would stick to what he/she instructs you to learn that is appropriate to your level and the learning structure he/she is teaching from.

RVD's materials certainly can be helpful to some degree. But, considering the financial cost vs actual benefit to your growth, I say stick to the advice given so far. If you are training every week, assumingly under a qualified shidoshi teacher, then the information you are looking for should be available to you through your shidoshi and he/she likely will tell you to only focus on certain things in more easily digestible amounts - instead of overwhelming you with academics.

I hope that helps...

Posted on: 2011/7/29 4:43
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Darren Dumas

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, or in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. ~ Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Waza, Kata and Technique
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I like practicing kihon happo and training in what ever you feel is fun and challenging. This is a living breathing art and it is a very personal art and no one can really tell you what you need to be working on save the basics.

When in doubt go back to basics.

Posted on: 2011/7/29 7:32
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