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American Liabilty Insurance????
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I hate the whole idea of needing it but it is the real world. Does anyone know of a good company that give us reasonable rates for teaching liability coverage?

Aloha & Mahalo!
Joe

Posted on: 2013/8/13 13:28
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Re: American Liabilty Insurance????
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Got me thinking where this would come in use, and tried to google for clarification... but didn't really dawn on me despite.

Could you give example(s) of situations this might come handy?

Posted on: 2013/8/13 14:51
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Ari Julku
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Re: American Liabilty Insurance????
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Well if a student gets hurt or acts like they are hurt and sues the instructor for damages.

Posted on: 2013/8/13 15:59
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Re: American Liabilty Insurance????
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Ah, that "clear" case :(

We used to have student sign a waiver releasing the club from responsibility, but then in Finnish law it's not the same as in the US, I seem to recall.

If one takes a look at the "Honbu guidelines" even there it is stated that Bujinkan Dojo is not to be held responsible...

But, yeah, it can be tricky if someone does accidentally get hurt.

Posted on: 2013/8/13 19:02
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Re: American Liabilty Insurance????
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It is very important what tone you set for the training in your dojo, it is very possible to train in a very safe way and yet gain all the skills one needs. The training that was often done years ago was more than foolish. That said in our litigus society I know that you must consider that possibility and having people sign a release is what usually is done. I never had such insurance for the group, but then was very selective on who continued to train and what kind of people they were, as well as paying close attention to the intensity of the training. Never had anyone injured in one of my classes either. Sorry I can't suggest an insurer, maybe someone else here can. Good luck. BTW is your dojo/group in Honolulu?

Posted on: 2013/8/13 22:48
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Re: American Liabilty Insurance????
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Thank you Ed, yes we are in Honolulu we train with Shihan Robert Fraser.

Aloha!
Joe

Posted on: 2013/8/14 4:59
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Re: American Liabilty Insurance????
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I recently looked into this issue for our group. The affordable insurance would cover injuries in the dojo, but not if weapons training was involved and it didn't cover liability outside of the dojo (ie. if someone gets mugged and doesn't use taijutsu effectively. The insurance would protect against that person suing the instructor for not "teaching me well enough" to stop a muggin, etc.).

We train with weapons, so that is out. I'm more concerned about the liability aspect than an injury in the dojo, so I looked into those types of policies. The premiums jump significantly.

Here is what I've decided. I will create an LLC. They are simple in Idaho to form, every state will differ. It is essentially a one time fee, whereas insurance is every year. If someone decides to sue, they have to sue the LLC, not you or the dojo. If there are no assets tied to the LLC (you lease the dojo space rather than own) then they can't get anything from the suit. At worse, your LLC goes bankrupt and you form a new one to keep training and teaching under.

I'm not a lawyer, so don't take my word for this, but the idea of an LLC is that it's a piece of paper that protects you personally from liability. This is what I plan on doing for my group.

Posted on: 2013/8/14 8:20
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Re: American Liabilty Insurance????
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LLC sound a bit like "registered association" we have in Finland. And we basically have to form one to start training to begin with, otherwise there are tax and social security and whatnot issues piling up on the teacher.

I know cases where former trainees have tried to attack the teacher - possibly aiming at revenge and profit - but this has protected the teachers.

Posted on: 2013/8/14 14:42
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Re: American Liabilty Insurance????
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Thank you that is one way to go. The Bujinkan is large enough there really should be a discount liability insurance company willing to take the teachers on. There is very few issues I have heard of the way we train.

Mahalo!
Joe

Posted on: 2013/8/15 9:59
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Re: American Liabilty Insurance????
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YoruKage wrote:
I recently looked into this issue for our group.
The affordable insurance would cover injuries in the
dojo, but not if weapons training was involved and it didn't cover liability outside of the dojo (ie. if
someone gets mugged and doesn't use taijutsu effectively. The insurance would protect against that person suing
the instructor for not "teaching me well enough" to stop
a muggin, etc.).



The above made me ponder, could that really happen? How could someone sue another person for failing to defend himself....?

I mean, there is NO WAY anyone can make certain that everyone will never fail in a self defence situation.... there simply exists too many variables, not to mention
bad luck....

Of course, if the instructor said thing like "with this
you are sure to achieve such-and-such effect..." then
there might be cause. But how could we even say that?
The things we teach are a possibility, they might help, they might open up an opportunity....

But it is up to the individual to make it work.

Even at the Dôjô.....

(PS. second attempt at posting this, with the first one the ends of the lines got cut off weirdly...)

Posted on: 2013/8/15 15:30
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Ari Julku
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